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Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:42 pm
by nmstec
sepp2gl wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:36 pm
OK...got it now.
Thanks for clarification. :)
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2229&p=43433#p43433


Crankshaft is located nice and deep in the belows of the engine. So when trying to get inthe ballpark of tdc offset, we had a ripped apart motor that was just enough to see and calculate.
But also yes, harley has dual fire plugs.


mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno says i'm not. You said curve would be flat up top, as you saw, its not.

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:20 am
by mk e
nmstec wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:42 pm

mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno says i'm not. You said curve would be flat up top, as you saw, its not.
I would have to dig up the original words, but I recall it looked exactly as expected, all lopsided due to leakage. The pressure curve would never be flat, it will start to drop as soon as leakage rate exceeds pressure gain rate. So a pressure rise and peak is expected ...2-5 degrees or so before true top, depending on how well sealed the rings are. I think what I probably tried to explain is that there is virtually no piston movement in the center 5 degrees and almost none in the center 10 so even a dial indicator is a very inaccurate way to find TDC in that area and standard practice is to stop .100" or so down in one direction and reverse to .100 the other direction and set center in the middle.

I have no idea how the dyno is telling you its correct? You could tell the ECU TDC is almost anywhere and still tune it just fine on the dyno so I'm not sure how that tells you anything? But this also means it doesn't really matter unless you're trying to share tuning tables with somebody who set TDC differently, but it you use you're setup and you tables you have no problem at all.

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
by nmstec
nmstec wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:42 pm
sepp2gl wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:36 pm
OK...got it now.
Thanks for clarification. :)
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2229&p=43433#p43433


Crankshaft is located nice and deep in the belows of the engine. So when trying to get inthe ballpark of tdc offset, we had a ripped apart motor that was just enough to see and calculate.
But also yes, harley has dual fire plugs.


mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno & oem ecu says i'm not. You said curve would be flat up top, as you saw, its not.

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:56 pm
by mk e
nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno says i'm not.
nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno & oem ecu says i'm not.

If you already had the number from the OEM ECU why did you not just use it and save all the time and bother of trying to measure it?

I'm sure a pressure sensor in the plug during cranking is WAY better than guessing ......

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:19 pm
by nmstec
mk e wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:56 pm
nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno says i'm not.
nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno & oem ecu says i'm not.

If you already had the number from the OEM ECU why did you not just use it and save all the time and bother of trying to measure it?

I'm sure a pressure sensor in the plug during cranking is WAY better than guessing ......
Again, because I don't. OEM ecu (well tmax in this case) does not show tdc offset. It does however show what timing it runs. Considering we did a few baseline runs, we know how much whp to expect out of it. So translation. Cylinder pressure tool did its job properly, I am dead on with timing, you said won't work, it worked. Thank you. Have a lovely day.
OR we could just get back on topic of cylinder pressure sensor. Reason why I did it has near nothing to do with why we want it.

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:00 pm
by mk e
nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:19 pm

Again, because I don't. OEM ecu (well tmax in this case) does not show tdc offset. It does however show what timing it runs. Considering we did a few baseline runs, we know how much whp to expect out of it. So translation. Cylinder pressure tool did its job properly, I am dead on with timing, you said won't work, it worked. Thank you. Have a lovely day.
OR we could just get back on topic of cylinder pressure sensor. Reason why I did it has near nothing to do with why we want it.
Reporting you got the same (similar?) hp for 1 tune as another tune, then implying that means the crank position setting is dead on is a non sequitur.

Mischaracterizing my comments about a method being inherently inaccurate to mean "won't work" is dishonest.

Just sayin.....

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:15 pm
by AndreyB
Cool pic from https://www.ptb.de/emrp/2175.html

We pretty much want to make same thing from scrap :)

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:37 pm
by AndreyB
Sensata says Cylinder Pressure Only Sensor (CPOS) was supposed to go mainstream on Daimler wonder if that has ever happened?

https://www.car-engineer.com/a-new-cylinder-pressure-sensor-offered-by-sensata/

https://bdn-automotive.com/products/pressure-sensors has a nice comparison of different approaches and they seem to be ready to take my money for Mazda Skyactive-X M8 thread, and 160mm length sensor I wonder what's the part number :)

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:32 pm
by AndreyB
in US we mostly have 03L905061 PSG007

Here's the NJ prototype from some years ago

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:32 pm
by AndreyB
Looks for help: looking for long spark plugs with M8 thread.

It looks like NGK catalog has only one 8mm TOTAL NGK ER9EH 5869, while they have a bunch of 10mm thread plugs like NGK 5946 LMAR6A9.

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:22 am
by Abricos
Denso VXUH22I Spark Plug Iridium Tough
5656 Replaces 267700-7380 ILZKR7A
DIMENSIONS:
Thread diameter: 8 mm
Height (mm): 24.5
Width (mm): 24.5
Length (mm): 92

Mark: NGK
Model: LMDR10AJS
Candle for engines 4 time
Overall length: 80 mm
Thread length: 27 mm
Thread diameter: 10 mm
With olive / non-removable core

Mark: NGK
Model: LMAR8F9
Candle for engines 4 time
Overall length: 83 mm
Thread length: 26,5 mm
Thread diameter: 10 mm
With olive / non-removable core
For 14 mm spanner

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:58 pm
by AndreyB
AndreyB wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:32 pm
NGK ER9EH 5869
well that's kind of LOL we are not the only one https://pandia.ru/text/80/281/45665.php
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Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:38 am
by AndreyB
Just info dump:
8946820020 Toyota SENSOR, COMBUSTION PRESSURE

CALDINA 08.1997 - 09.2002

No idea what exactly does it measure

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:48 pm
by AndreyB
Well it cost me an arm and a leg, we shall see if it does the job.

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:57 pm
by AndreyB
Abricos wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:36 pm
CR glow plug pinout:
1. power (3v if I'm reading this bentley notations correctly)
2. signal to ecu
3. ground
4. glow from J179 automatic glow time control module
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Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:09 am
by AndreyB
Well, the cylinder was firing and we've measured _something_ with proper period. While signal shape looks nice there is a bit of a concurn for scale and base line volgate. To be continued in NJ.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Cylinder-Pressure-Sensor-Glow-Plug


Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:41 pm
by AndreyB
$16 for 4 or $16 for 100? hard choice

https://www.gsparkplug.com/100x-spark-plug-top-sae-bullet-terminal-nut-m4-thread-brass.html
https://us.gsparkplug.com/100x-spark-plug-top-sae-bullet-terminal-nut-m4-thread-brass.html
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Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:41 am
by nmstec
Any updates?