Simulator Problem

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Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:04 pm

Basically the jumper wire simulator works but the virtual one doesn't.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?


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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:54 pm

I do not understand you.

What is "jumper wire simulator"? Is there a real board somewhere?

What is "virtual"?

The way I understand "simulator" it's absolutely no real hardware, meaning there could be no stm32 anywhere within 3 meters / 10 ft from your PC. It's virtual as in "no wires anywhere".

If we get pass this confusion maybe you would be able to help with with a better button name for the "totally virtual, no hardware, no wires simulator" so that further generations are less confused :)
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:56 pm

You see the horizontal lines which are trying to hint that port selection is related to "connect" button while "simulator" is a separate section altogether?

Looking for ideas how to improve the usability of this screen without making too much effort :)
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:43 pm

russian wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:54 pm
What is "jumper wire simulator"? Is there a real board somewhere?
When I connect the jumpers like this, it seams to put signals into the STM32 and the console works.
Image
russian wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:54 pm
What is "virtual"?
I was trying to differentiate between the HW jumper STIM and the "virtual" SW rusefi_console.jar SIM.
russian wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:54 pm
The way I understand "simulator" it's absolutely no real hardware, meaning there could be no stm32 anywhere within 3 meters / 10 ft from your PC. It's virtual as in "no wires anywhere".
I had to assume things because the instructions aren't fully detailed for a beginner, but going by these instructions I assumed you only need the SW rusefi_console.jar SIM, and that puts signals into the rusefi_console.exe.
Start simulator via Dev Console
1) double-click on rusefi_console.jar (you would need Java installed to do this). You should see
2) Hit the 'Start Simulator' button.
Out development console would launch the simulator & display some gauges and signal shapes.
Then going by the video - I had to guess stuff because there is no voice-over instructions to tell you what the circumstances were -.

I see him select a COM, and the only way you can do that is if there has something there, so I tried the STM32 COM - going by the above instructions I assumed you don't need the virtual COM, but I tried it anyway and it didn't connect -.
I then see signals on the sniffer in the video so I assume the SIM is putting stuff into the console.

Unless the insts are wrong I assume running "rusefi_console.jar" started with my .bat "java -jar rusefi_console.jar COM28" should make the console work like the HW wire method.
russian wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:56 pm
You see the horizontal lines which are trying to hint that port selection is related to "connect" button while "simulator" is a separate section altogether?
I did hit Connect for the HW jumper one, and SIM for the SW SIM.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:03 pm

I see him select a COM, and the only way you can do that is if there has something there, so I tried the STM32 COM
The description for the video says This screen cast shows how to start rusEfi simulator, setup a virtual COM/TCP port and connect with Tuner Studio
I assumed you only need the SW rusefi_console.jar SIM, and that puts signals into the rusefi_console.exe.
rusefi_console.jar is not a sim. rusefi_console.jar is rusEfi console main binary and rusefi_console.exe is only a convenient way to launch that binary on WIndows


Please download latest bundle and you will see updated start-up screen. While it's a bit uglier now, I've attempted to group controls better.

Yes our documentation sucks :(
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:55 am

This screen cast shows how to start rusEfi simulator, setup a virtual COM/TCP port and connect with Tuner Studio
I don't see that sentence in the 2 vid locations I found.
The main problem is I don't understand the in-house terminology so it doesn't mean much when I read it. Like is "main binary" the main console .exe program, and is that the Dev console.

I can't type out every point and how I came to that conclusion so I'm just going to tell you what I understand from the instructions.

From "Soft U Manual" it says there are 2 ways to SIM an engine, the jumper wire HW way, and the virtual(6th adventure) "Start Simulation" button way.

I have the jumper way working and it displays in the console, like shown in the 2nd half of my vid.

The "Start Simulation" button way doesn't work, like the 1st half of my video.
There are written instructions, but not what you expect to see, so I interpret what I'm seeing from the video.
I see him select COM3, which I assume is the plugged in STM32 COM#. I'm guessing it won't start without an actual COM# displayed in Device Manager.
Next I see Sniffer full of stuff, so I assume the console is connected and running.

I'm not interested in TunerStudio because I don't have a full version, but I am seeing the console with inputs from the "Start Simulation" way.

Is the video wrong, and that using the "Start Simulation" button won't show on the console.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:43 pm

Looks like it has performance issues. I might have improved things a bit, can you please try downloading latest and report it virtual simulator has worked for you?
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:15 pm

Don't worry about making the console pretty, I'm only really interested in the question.

When I Start Simulator will I see live figures update in the console Engine Sniffer? Like in the 2nd half of my 1st video.

Here is what I'm talking about.


EDIT
Sorry I found it, it was the firewall - I should've known because Cura has that problem -.

All the figures come up but they are static, unlike the jumper method where they are live. Are static figures correct.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:44 pm

Old Grey wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:15 pm
All the figures come up but they are static, unlike the jumper method where they are live. Are static figures correct.
In case of stm32 board on your table your naked disconnected pins are readying signals from Mars which gives you jumpy gauges. There is no logic anywhere to generate random values, it's a side effect of not having proper sensors properly connected.

In case of virtual simulator gauges are not showing any EMI noise since there is no EMI noise in the virtual world. The primary usage of virtual simulator is to look at engine sniffer, there are very limited ways of mimicking the sensors.

What exactly are you trying to do?
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:16 am

The Frankenso board has 500k ohm resistors to GND, which means an un-connected signal will float to 0V, and register as a 0V signal, not a noisy signal. However if you have just the STM32 board, the inputs may be able to wander and see noise.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:47 pm

I had a feeling the signals are so accurate in the virtual SIM that you probably won't see them move. I just wanted to be sure because the OCD told me to ask. :D

I want to see it running with a mech STIM so I can test waste spark and sequential spark.
This is a different system, but like this


Also I'm making a tutorial video showing how a stupid person can get the RUSefi working ;). If I have to learn it to do my experiment I might as well film it to help others.
Here is part 1

Like I mention in the video, I had a problem in the order of driver install and when you plug the STM in, because the instruction say to download the drivers but not when to install them, so it's not perfect. I was doing step by step and didn't notice the section below that was out of order and should've been higher.

I wish I had a full version of TunerStudio - I read somewhere the free version can't connect - so I can show it working from the SIMs.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:16 am

Very nice, and good job. Some suggestions. In your descriptions some where, could you include the revisions, bundle #, windows version and windows 32 vs 64 bit, etc. That information can be handy for others. Also if you happen to have an extra install CD, it would be cool if you could create a virtual machine (VM) using something like Virtual Box. Then show how this goes from scratch. The VM is handy as you can copy it and start over quite quickly.

Tuner Studio (TS) free edition will work for most features. If you are looking for auto-tune via TS using a WO2 sensor, then you need the purchased edition. As well your TS needs to be newer than some revision that was released some years ago. Basically if you use a modern TS and if you do not need that atuo-tune feature of TS, then the free edition works just fine.

If you don't mind me asking, what screen capture software do you recommend? I'm currently using one, which does not allow me to capture full screen. Either that or I use CamStudio, which is a pain to get decent decoders installed. I'm looking to learn better options if I can find them.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:53 pm

That was from scratch, it's just that I didn't know the exact order because I was following the Wiki instructions word for word. The Wiki is a bit weird in the order, like it says to flash the STM32 firmware with ST-LINK, but further down is the install instructions. It also tells you to download the ST serial-over-usb driver, but not when in the order to install it - it doesn't actually tell you to install it -. I guessed ST serial-over-usb driver 1st, and ST-LINK 2nd. It also has the .jar method, and that is now not used. I guess the Wiki needs a bit of touching up.

So TunerStudio free works. There must be some out of date instructions because I read something about it not being able to connect because TS free was missing an option. At least I can do full software instruction vid now, I just have to lean it.

Most people use OBS software for screen recording and live streaming. It very powerful compared to those old style programs like CamStudio.
https://obsproject.com

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Wed May 01, 2019 2:18 am

Now I know why I gave up on the SIM video 6mths ago :(, because it's harder to do than I thought.

1 - I can change rpm up to the RPM threshold, and I can change Trigger offset, but I haven't found much else. Is there anything else that you can play around with in the console SIM? If there is other stuff I want to add it to a tutorial.
2 - In the table I see 2 triggers, 4 coils, 2 INJs, and a map. Do these 9 channels ever change?, ie; if I change the setup to SEQ INJ 4cyl, will 4 INJs turn up.
3 - What is the map?, because I don't understand why it has a pulse width. When you hover over the last red box row it says map/
4 - What is Tick length and count?

It's probably not that important but I'm getting this table jitter. If it's something maybe someone wants to look into it.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Wed May 01, 2019 2:36 am

1) you can play with virtual voltage virtually fed into sensors.

You commands would be

Code: Select all

set mock_iat_voltage V
set mock_pedal_position V
set mock_maf_voltage V
set mock_afr_voltage V
set mock_tps_voltage V
set mock_map_voltage V
set mock_vbatt_voltage V
set mock_clt_voltage V
where V would be whatever virtual voltage you want to be consumed by the logic (for example set mock_afr_voltage 2.5). This should allow you to control most (all?) sensors which should affect the formulas on the formulas pane of the simulator. I have a feeling that this feature is not documented widely :roll:


2. Yes, I would expect that you should be able to get additional channels if you increase the number of cylinders or change configuration. Note that console sucks at changing settings unless you use commands which are not the most easy to use magic. But great news is that you can connect to same simulator instance by both console and TunerStudio simulations - simulator listens on two local TCP/IP ports 29001 and 29002. Bad news that to get easy network connectivity in TunerStudio you need a license, otherwise you have to use nasty virtual serial to network adapter see https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... TCP_redict

3. MAP is the angle window of MAP sensor averaging. MAP and HIP are not very interesting channels to be honest, kind of a boring technical detail.

4. What is Tick length and count? Not sure which tick are we talking about here?

Jitter. https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/780 created, it explains the story
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Wed May 01, 2019 3:34 am

1 - map does a lot to INJ PW, but the others don't do much. EDIT Figured it out. If you go outside the parms it doesn't accept it and the pulse widths don't move. It tells you in msg it's outside prams.
2- I want to get the console working before switching to TS.
3 - Ahh
4 - I's probably not that important but Tick and count are the fine black text on the left column of the table.

It's bit hard to figure out the order of a tutorial series. Like should I do a connecting to TS - I haven't even looked at that yet -, before SIM console. I guess I just do them and change the numbering latter if I have to. On second thoughts maybe TS first.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by kb1gtt » Wed May 01, 2019 4:12 am

I might suggest TS video / tutorial before a Console video / console. TS has lots of features which are useful to the everyday user. The console was mostly intended for developer features, which were not easily implemented in TS. Things like those live equations, which show how the math is being done. Or showing the crank wheel similar to how it would look on a scope. That stuff is hard to do in TS, so it was done in the console. Once upon a time, I recall the "console" was "development console" Then at some point, when it obtained many of the features of TS, the word development was dropped from the name.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Wed May 01, 2019 1:56 pm

2. rusEfi console is not functionally complete unfortunately, with limited resources there is no chance to keep up with TS in terms of usability and functionality. Sometimes you need both or to alternate between tools, I totally do :(

I've just remembered about another feature! In simulator you can control mock voltage on five or six gauges without commands, with just the user interface. This was a bit broken and I've just fixed that in latest console version 20190501. You need to double-click on a gauge to detach it, and in detached mode you get the slider under the gauge which allows mock voltage control.

Image

Ticks were about amount of data displayed, I've changed this a bit hopefully to make it a bit less confusing.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Thu May 02, 2019 7:46 am

kb1gtt wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 4:12 am
I might suggest TS video / tutorial before a Console video / console.
I'm doing a kind-of "try before you buy" with min hardware, ie just the STM32 Disc board, so I'm doing the console first. I haven't checked, but I think there will be a problem with TS if all the pins are open and floating when there is no Frank shield.
russian wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 1:56 pm
2. rusEfi console is not functionally complete unfortunately, with limited resources there is no chance to keep up with TS in terms of usability and functionality. Sometimes you need both or to alternate between tools, I totally do :(

I've just remembered about another feature! In simulator you can control mock voltage on five or six gauges without commands, with just the user interface. This was a bit broken and I've just fixed that in latest console version 20190501. You need to double-click on a gauge to detach it, and in detached mode you get the slider under the gauge which allows mock voltage control.
The Console isn't too bad, it's just that there isn't enough info on how to use it - I guess it's me trying to fix that ;) -.
The sliders now make the Console a lot easier to use than using text commands, so that's good. There is a bit of lag between moving the slider and the pulses changing in Engine Sniffer, but I'm not sure I'm doing everything correctly - see below -.

I still get some weirdness. Like when I change CLT too high I get "unrealistic CLT-102.45, and now I wondering if I don't have a base tune loaded, or I haven't set/selected the sensors and it can't relate the voltage to a valve. Am I supposed to select a car in Presets before doing anything, because currently I just have the FW loaded and went straight to the Engine Sniffer and started changing voltages.

This is the fourth time, but every time I learn something new I have to delete all the edited footage and start again. It's getting to the point that I think I have to make a rough video, and you guys will have to tell me what to fix. There is no point making vid with miss information.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by kb1gtt » Thu May 02, 2019 9:14 am

Old Grey wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 7:46 am
I haven't checked, but I think there will be a problem with TS if all the pins are open and floating when there is no Frank shield.
I recall that the STM32 has weak internal pull down's or pull ups which can be configured to be either connected, or not connected at all. These resistors which are internal to the STM32 are very similar to our 500k pull downs on the input circuits. I'm not sure if those are configured or not, but I recall they are physically there. I suspect that ChibiOS has them configured for weak pull down, but I have not verified this. My expectation is that you should be just fine with the STM32 discovery board, and if it is not, then we can make it just fine.

Also about the try it before you buy it kind of theory, there is a PC only simulation option. Basically everything is emulated in the PC, and you can connect TS and / or the console to get a feel for things. This can also be handy for developing new features as you can compile a new firmware and do a bunch of testing on it. All you need is a PC.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Thu May 02, 2019 1:37 pm

this thread is about simulator. there is no real hardware in simulator. no stm32 in simulator thread please. lets not casually mention simulator exisyence in simulator thread?

no resistor talk here please. this thread is about no stm32, not about naked stm32.

naked stm32 works with TS just fine but please start a new thread about naked stm32 if desired.

there is a chance that console start screen needs further clarification of what is simulator. jared please confirm that you have downloaded a recent bundle in the last 6 months and started recent console in last 6 months so that we all have current context.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Thu May 02, 2019 6:00 pm

Old Grey wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 7:46 am
I still get some weirdness. Like when I change CLT too high I get "unrealistic CLT-102.45, and now I wondering if I don't have a base tune loaded, or I haven't set/selected the sensors and it can't relate the voltage to a valve.
The slide allows you to set any voltage, right? With "default" CLT sensor some voltages indicate very low or very high temperatures. Like -100 degrees Celsius - the firmware treats this as indication of a problem.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Thu May 02, 2019 9:17 pm

For 6 months I've been thinking that I needed the STM32 board, and now that's all wrong. The first thing in the inst video is selecting COM3, like the STM32 is connected, and now I find out I never needed it. Well that 2 weeks and 100 clips in the toilet.

So I don't need any tune loaded or sensors selected, and the warnings don't matter. Like the 1st warning "trigger not happy current 1/1/0 expected 2/8/0" - like the wheel is not selected -, means nothing.

Now the rpm. Selecting a rpm looks like it's limited by the rpm threshold, but it's hard to tell exactly with the jigger/zoom-in zoom-out when I try a higher rpm at a higher rpm threshold. Any chance of a rpm slider.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Thu May 02, 2019 10:46 pm

Minor login screen usability improvement - different button text & button now have tool tips. Not sure if this helps, I am open to suggestions on how to reduce the confusion further https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/commit ... 0a6b72c68d

Jitter in console is maybe fixed now - https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/commit ... d5782ed4a3

it would be about 45 minutes until fresh stuff is compiled.

Thank you for the RPM slider proposal, it is now - https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/782 maybe will implement later today, maybe not today
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Fri May 03, 2019 10:38 pm

I was going to give up, but since you've gone too so much trouble I will battle on.

Started HW VPS (virtual serial port), but connection to TS hangs at 26% and fails. More reading and it seams I need telnet. Will wait for the new bundle, and then try to install telnet client.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Fri May 03, 2019 10:50 pm

Old Grey wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:38 pm
but connection to TS hangs at 26% and fails
that sounds unusual

too lazy to go the HW VPS route since I have Tuner Studio license and I can connect using TCP/IP directly. Just checked - TS (Tuner Studio) has worked with current simulator for me.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Mon May 06, 2019 10:58 am

Any ideas about this one.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Mon May 06, 2019 10:41 pm

Technically you know console is working the moment you get first engine sniffer chart :)

I am worried that you do not close telnet once you connect - technically it's only one connection per port and you keep telnet connection but later try TS connection. I am also surprised COM is alive while you telnet... I would say it's one happy connection at any time - either COM emulator, OR telnet, OR TS? So maybe telnet BEFORE serial, close telnet - open serial emulator?

You can hit letter t or T while in telnet and see something cool. Just please close telnet once you are done trying telnet!

I would need to try doing same exact thing, maybe in a few hours maybe not today.
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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by Old Grey » Tue May 07, 2019 12:51 am

I tried different orders of opening, and still stuck on 26%.

1 - tried terminal "telnet localhost 29001" without any other program working, and naturally "Could not open connection".
2 - Start rusefi console.
3 - tried terminal "telnet localhost 29001" again, and it goes blank with cursor like in the vid. I assume it's connected.
4 - close terminal. I hope closing terminal frees up the port.
5 - tried terminal "telnet localhost 29002" without HW VSP running, and naturally "Could not open connection".
6 - start HW VSP like in vid.
7 - tried terminal "telnet localhost 29002" again, and it goes blank with cursor like in the vid. I assume it's connected.
8 - close terminal. I hope closing terminal frees up the port.
9 - start TS and it hangs on 26% like in the vid.

Does closing the terminal free the connection?

EDIT
Tried Putty with telnet and stuck on 26%.
Tried Putty with serial on COM3 and nothing
Tried Putty with serial on COM1 but TS on COM3 and stuck on 26%.

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Re: Simulator Problem

Post by russian » Tue May 07, 2019 1:21 am

Old Grey wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 12:51 am
...
I assume it's connected.
...
9 - start TS and it hangs on 26% like in the vid.
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Does closing the terminal free the connection?
Type T and <ENTER> in telnet to be more certain, you should see something human-readable.

I have no tried HW VSP for a few years obviously. Just installed it and I got the same 26% issue as you :( Unfortunately I have no idea which of the so many layers involved to blame :(

Kind of a little piece of good news - I've played with things I can change and it looks like changing blockingFactor value from 400 to 200 in mainController.ini of Tuner Studio project file helps a bit - with this change it reads the tune completely to 100%!

Unfortunately with this comes the next issue:
1 Errors:
Error: blockingFactor smaller than ochBlockSize, but ochCommand does not support blocking.
so gauges in TS would not work, and this would require a code change in order to "ochCommand to support blocking" which could be doable. There is a chance of me adding this into the software under https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/794
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

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