2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

What engine are you torturing? Is it inside some car?
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:06 pm

Did you get Autodata?
In Engine component tesing, all the resistance and volts for all sensors are specified.
Last edited by 960 on Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:04 am

I have not done the autodata yet. If we do our own board, I'm not crazy concerned about the values. I just need to know the pinout, and what other features we might look to add. If I need to look at the autodata I'll cross that bridge when I get there. For now I need to figure out if we are better of with our own board, or building a different brain.

Looking a bit closer, I'm concerned about S4000 which seems to be a CJ910 that powered the 5V for several sensors, and allows the cam / crank signals to pass to the ECU. This chip has an RX and TX, which could be part of a security feature. Do you happen to know about this chip?
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:07 am

The reason it has Rx/Tx is because it has K-line in I think.

Also it does not control any functions of concerns.

I Think it might be just as easy with a new board, as there will be a lot of differences.


I think we should use most of the circuits, and component values from the Bosch diagrams.
That would be a good idea in any ecu, as Bosch has done this a few times before :-)

I am currently working on the can library, amnd it's a lot of work.
I am writing it to work with both MED9 and ME7.

I think this ECU will work in MED9 cars as well. From the info I have now, it seems so.

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:34 am

Bosch has tuned the circuit to their processor. ADC's commonly have an input impedance between 1kohm to 20kohm. Often the exact match is not critical. We can account for linear issues with software. If we do it from scratch, we will likely need to adjust these values slightly to ensure they are matched with the STM's inputs. As well I don't think we can get the Bosch ETB drivers. The ETB we can get is a different circuit, so we'll have to do that on our own, instead of using the circuit they have. The OEM schematic helps, as it shows how it works now, and can help with determining how we should connect. However the circuits are likely to be very different than the OEM circuits, as we can't get the OEM chips.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:56 am

We need to add some Mototsport functions.

As is has e-throttle most can be done in software.

Antilag can be inplemented by holding the throttle about 25% open, retard advance and lots of fuel :-)
kicks in when clutch switch is open, and off when clutch released.

Just need a switch input on the ecu, to have in the car.

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:29 am

In what file should the can stream be added(Not OBD)?

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:42 am

960 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:29 am
In what file should the can stream be added(Not OBD)?
Please be more specific, what are you trying to do exactly? Shall we start a separate topic for your vehicle? It would help to know which exact vehicle you are trying to get running and what _exactly_ are you trying to do.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:09 am

For this project, we need a can-stream between ECU, ESP, SRS Instrument etc. Can_H and Can_L

It will be in format like this:

(0xDA0, 0x01, 0x80, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
or (0xDA0, 0, 8, (0x01, 0x80, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00));

I need some existing factors to use for the variables, like rpm etc.
Which file will I use factors from, and which file do I write all of it?


This is "RAW" KWP2000 between modules only

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:59 pm

960 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:09 am
For this project, we need a can-stream between ECU, ESP, SRS Instrument etc. Can_H and Can_L

Which file will I use factors from, and which file do I write all of it?
You can start at https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... can_hw.cpp and if needed we will improve later
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:30 pm

Great!

Is there any in/output you need more information on?

If so, I can find all spesifications and collect them.
The Functionsrahmen with its 5000 pages is a little heavy reading if you are unfamiliar with it :-)

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:23 pm

960 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:30 pm
Is there any in/output you need more information on?
At the moment we are still learning how to collaborate. Can you please start a new thread specifically for _your_ vehicle for us to know _exactly_ what is your test mule? I suspect that for the next few weeks you are soldering Frankenso :)

I also have a feeling that @ maybe would be trying rusEfi on VW soon - again, I am not sure what is his vehicle exactly, maybe he will start a thread as well.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by NormanAlphaspeed » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:09 am

russian wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:23 pm
960 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:30 pm
Is there any in/output you need more information on?
At the moment we are still learning how to collaborate. Can you please start a new thread specifically for _your_ vehicle for us to know _exactly_ what is your test mule? I suspect that for the next few weeks you are soldering Frankenso :)

I also have a feeling that @ maybe would be trying rusEfi on VW soon - again, I am not sure what is his vehicle exactly, maybe he will start a thread as well.
Hahahahaahahahahaha I see you got the order!

We'll be running it in the shop Mustang first, so i can get the feel of the code for the rusEFI and STM32 line, since I really want to learn more about ST and ChibiOS and all that nice stuff. I could make a PnP adapter for the Audi and test on there too! Let's see

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:20 am

The S4000 a CJ910 is likely an issue, as that chip's RX and TX likely have several messages which need to be sent to the chip to enable the multiple 5V signals. This chip likely monitors for dead shorts, over voltage, and other diagnostics. If we attempt to replace the brain on the OEM ECU, then we'll need to know the communications of this chip.

I'm also seeing in the schematic that S6500 a CJ920 is a generic low side 2.2A 70V injector driver. This indicates this noted ECU is manifold injected not direct injected. We already have this kind of injector driver, and I see no special circuits on this ECU. However the 2.0T in this thread is FSI not manifold injected. The FSI requires a special injector driver which has not been fully developed or validated yet. We have a draft of a circuit and it uses an obtainable chip.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:38 pm


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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:54 am

It looks like watch dog and setting system parameters are the key things that would be required to control this chip. Those can likely be sniffed and figured out. There are many different approaches with watch dogs. They often have an algorithm which needs to match, or it kill the MCU's power. For example, they both start with one, and they both do something like N+5>>2. Then the MCU sends this number to the watch dog. If the command sent from the MCU does not match, then the MCU power is cut. If it does match, than this new number is run through the same algorithm and checked again. The problem is that we don't currently know the algorithm. If we sniff signals, we might be able to figure it out. However it would be handy if we can find enough data to learn what this algorithm is. I've seen some which use a state machine. Those can be a real bugger to figure out. I've also seen many which simply toggle one pin once every 0.25 seconds. Some are simple, some are complicated.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:41 am

@ has something to share...
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:09 pm

https://www.copart.com/lot/28713639 2006 VOLKSWAGEN PASSAT 2.0T LUXURY
and
https://www.copart.com/lot/22979499 2009 VOLKSWAGEN JETTA WOLFSBURG

engine cover looks differently

@ do you have any of these?
@ do you have any of these?

is either of these engines direct injected? Does anyone know which engine is what code/name/etc?
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:05 am

On top of the engine, one notes TSI and the other notes FSI. A description of the differences are noted below.

https://www.alexsautohaus.com/blog/what ... i-and-tsi/

If you want it to run, the TSI chain drive is more reliable. As well, these likely do not run. AKA minor dents isn't usually enough to get a salvage title. The engines in these are likely toasted. Mine are FSI, which is belt driven.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:08 am

russian wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:09 pm
is either of these engines direct injected? Does anyone know which engine is what code/name/etc?
So these are the two remaining questions :) Sounds like both are GDI? Is the pictured turbo-FSI a EA113 and TSI a EA888?
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:25 am

You also see if it's GDI from what ECU they use.

Most VAG from 2005- are GDI.

From the link kb1gtt posted:


Engine Management: Bosch MED 17 from Bosch MED 9


Bosch Motronic E-Throttle and Bosch Motronic E-Throttle Direct Injection

I dont have any GDI Engine now.

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:44 am

cool video "Why New Cars Are Using Both Direct & Port Fuel Injection"

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by Abricos » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:09 am

GDI Engine problems ...
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:21 am

I've heard several people call the port injector on a GDI engine a "carbon washing" injector. This injector is commonly intended to have less atomizing then your normal injector. It's intended to spray down the side wall and wash the blow by oil down the throat. Also I understand VW's oil spec includes specific detergents which cause the oil itself to wash down the carbon. I have 2x of these FSI engines, both with around 250kmi on them. I don't see significant loss of power or anything like that. These engines do not have washing injector, and it seems they don't have much build up. I think that as long as you change your oil properly, the blow by is minimal, which prevents the blow by oil. I do occasionally run SeaFoam spray in the intake. However from what I've seen from YouTube channel "ProjectFarm" I do not expect that to really dissolve much of the carbon.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by OrchardPerformance » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:07 pm

A lot of the return to a port fuel injector is to do with fuel atomisation and soot formation, two things that GDI engines struggle with and both are going to become more of an issue on the emissions testing side. Its primarily an issue during warmup and under some light load conditions.

The soot formation is a big issue as it is sub PM10 sized particles that pass the respiratory system and into the lungs.


The port injector will wash the valve to a certain extent but it is not the primary focus.

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