Engine control scenarios / modes
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Engine control scenarios / modes
So, we can choice between some control models.
Speed density / MAP
Alpha-N / TPS-RPM
MAP
MAF
These models are used for both Ignition and Injection control.
But, in some cases, we need different mode for injection and different for Ignition.
Let, me explain ...
I have 2.0 litre engine, on ITB, and also have vacuum tank for MAP sensor.
Using "Speed density" model for fueling "is too bad idea" for ITB engines, but is "good idea" for ignition.
Using Alpha-N model is not so good for fuel economy - we need correction table
and it is not ideal for ignition on low engine load.
Is possible to have different control models for Ignition and different for Injection ..??
Speed density / MAP
Alpha-N / TPS-RPM
MAP
MAF
These models are used for both Ignition and Injection control.
But, in some cases, we need different mode for injection and different for Ignition.
Let, me explain ...
I have 2.0 litre engine, on ITB, and also have vacuum tank for MAP sensor.
Using "Speed density" model for fueling "is too bad idea" for ITB engines, but is "good idea" for ignition.
Using Alpha-N model is not so good for fuel economy - we need correction table
and it is not ideal for ignition on low engine load.
Is possible to have different control models for Ignition and different for Injection ..??
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
You use double negatives do you or do you not, don't you?
Please state which combination do you believe would be ideal for you. At the moment I believe if you use MAP for fuel you are forced to use same MAP for spark.
Please state which combination do you believe would be ideal for you. At the moment I believe if you use MAP for fuel you are forced to use same MAP for spark.
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Actually maybe we have exactly what you are looking for?
Just attempted to document it better https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/commit/17733bc00f21517b551409bafda26e1b44b49ad4
Just attempted to document it better https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/commit/17733bc00f21517b551409bafda26e1b44b49ad4
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
OK ..
On most ITB engines is Alpha-N mode good for fueling.
It has no correction.
All tables have X and Y axes.
Is possible to have "X - rpm" and "Y - tps" axes for fueling
and "X - rpm" and "Y map" axes for ignition ..??
(..and AFR table X-rpm Y-map .. maybe)
On most ITB engines is Alpha-N mode good for fueling.
It has no correction.
All tables have X and Y axes.
Is possible to have "X - rpm" and "Y - tps" axes for fueling
and "X - rpm" and "Y map" axes for ignition ..??
(..and AFR table X-rpm Y-map .. maybe)
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
...this is it .. maybe ...russian wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:25 pmActually maybe we have exactly what you are looking for?
Just attempted to document it better https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/commit/17733bc00f21517b551409bafda26e1b44b49ad4
It is in on latest bundle ..?? or it is "on plan" .. ?
EDITED:
no ...
Last edited by JRD McLAREN on Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
It's on the current bundle but sounds like it's the opposite of what you want - it has MAP for fuel and TPS for spark.
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
...yes, it is opposite..
In speed-density mode, you need to retard ignition on "high TPS move"..
cause detonation may occur ...
In speed-density mode, you need to retard ignition on "high TPS move"..
cause detonation may occur ...
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Not supported at the moment
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
OK..
it was a question ..
On engines with ITB you have "two state" MAP value ..
Vacuum .. aprox 56-60kPa (on my engine)
and..
No vacuum .. aprox 85-92kPa
..nothing between..
on same MAP and RPM value, in cruise drive.. (1800-2000)
"wallking around" 4 fields in VE map (54-56)
but have different AFR (14 - 12) dependent on TPS position (13-8)
it was a question ..
On engines with ITB you have "two state" MAP value ..
Vacuum .. aprox 56-60kPa (on my engine)
and..
No vacuum .. aprox 85-92kPa
..nothing between..
on same MAP and RPM value, in cruise drive.. (1800-2000)
"wallking around" 4 fields in VE map (54-56)
but have different AFR (14 - 12) dependent on TPS position (13-8)
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Mmmm...
This looks good ..
This is what I want ..
This looks good ..
This is what I want ..
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Something is wrong ..
First try on dyno, with rusefi ..
and NO FUN ..
It cut off, when I have TPS 40% and above..
In log file, is MAX 40% TPS value reported,
but in a real life is much than 40% ....
We can try some "horrible numbers" in VE map,
but it doing nothing ..
First try on dyno, with rusefi ..
and NO FUN ..
It cut off, when I have TPS 40% and above..
In log file, is MAX 40% TPS value reported,
but in a real life is much than 40% ....
We can try some "horrible numbers" in VE map,
but it doing nothing ..
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Do we know what kind of an engine this is? Have we seen a picture? What board is this? I think a LOT of info could be missing or did I miss something big time?
Could it be that a tune file could help us? Please confirm that you had a chance to look at http://rusefi.com/s/questions
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Wait ...
My post is "just for record" .. at this moment...
I will try to check TPS sensor ..
Make video from my laptop screen ...
..etc ...
My post is "just for record" .. at this moment...
I will try to check TPS sensor ..
Make video from my laptop screen ...
..etc ...
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
TPS (white) goes UP but RPM goes DOWN? And mixture (green) goes lean?
I believe these logs are from SD card? Tuner Studio logs probably have most columns, firmware logs probably have least columns. Ideally should be the same if someone points at the gaps which columns are missing which of the three logs files
I believe these logs are from SD card? Tuner Studio logs probably have most columns, firmware logs probably have least columns. Ideally should be the same if someone points at the gaps which columns are missing which of the three logs files
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Look at this picture, from megalog viewer ..
RPM is 2988
TPS is 42%
MAP is 98kPa
VE is 43
..as you can see "my test fuel map" ..
VE is 240 .. in these fields ....
Log file is from SD card ..
RPM is 2988
TPS is 42%
MAP is 98kPa
VE is 43
..as you can see "my test fuel map" ..
VE is 240 .. in these fields ....
Log file is from SD card ..
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
how much volt is your TPS sensor 3.3 ,5 ,12 volt ?
Do you make calibration TPS. In tuner studio ?
Do you make calibration TPS. In tuner studio ?
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
...TPS is calibrated ...
I make some tests on "standing vehicle" ...
TPS work from 0 to 100% with no problem - see rus2.msl
VE map in TunerStudio look like picture above,
right TPS and RPM bins.
"mark" (or pointer) walking thru map ...
BUT in rusEFI console, looks different - see ve_rusefi_console.JPG
"Unknown degree" and "Unknown RPM" ..
and "green square" walking on the first line only, and not according real engine RPM
I make some tests on "standing vehicle" ...
TPS work from 0 to 100% with no problem - see rus2.msl
VE map in TunerStudio look like picture above,
right TPS and RPM bins.
"mark" (or pointer) walking thru map ...
BUT in rusEFI console, looks different - see ve_rusefi_console.JPG
"Unknown degree" and "Unknown RPM" ..
and "green square" walking on the first line only, and not according real engine RPM
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
... I need to create "some engine load" table ..??
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
rusEfi table editor is EXTREMELY limited, I would not try using it.
What is the problem you are trying to solve?
Engine not revving above certain is mostly about ignition timing not fuel map, is not it?
What is the problem you are trying to solve?
Engine not revving above certain is mostly about ignition timing not fuel map, is not it?
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
It has problem with fueling...
It seems, the controller not calculate fuel correctly.
(wrong table readings or readings from different table ..??)
I have selected "speed density" algorithm, with TPS based VE map.
In TunerStudio everything look fine, but not in reality.
In rusEFI console look everything different.
I need to answer, why rusefi not calculate injection time from VE table, as I see on Tuner studio ..??
.. in this "combined mode" - Speed Density + TPS based VE table ..
(on many fields are "too high" VE value, it must be injection time around 20ms)
(but I cant see it on any gauge, AFR, logs etc .. )
(engine cut-off due to too lean mixture)
It seems, the controller not calculate fuel correctly.
(wrong table readings or readings from different table ..??)
I have selected "speed density" algorithm, with TPS based VE map.
In TunerStudio everything look fine, but not in reality.
In rusEFI console look everything different.
I need to answer, why rusefi not calculate injection time from VE table, as I see on Tuner studio ..??
.. in this "combined mode" - Speed Density + TPS based VE table ..
(on many fields are "too high" VE value, it must be injection time around 20ms)
(but I cant see it on any gauge, AFR, logs etc .. )
(engine cut-off due to too lean mixture)
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
What does "look fine" meanJRD McLAREN wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:42 pmIn TunerStudio everything look fine, but not in reality.
In rusEFI console look everything different.
What "look everything different." mean
I am sorry I am unable to read you mind. Please give exact gauge names, exact actual values and exact expected values. Please give exact tune and logs, with exact screenshots pointing at exact moment of the problem.
Have you considered using more normal modes just to compare?
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
.see X and Y axes on pictures above.
"Standard" Speed Density mode, with MAP based VE table works fine.
It not works on TPS based VE table.
here is numbers https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1542&p=32934#p32918
"Standard" Speed Density mode, with MAP based VE table works fine.
It not works on TPS based VE table.
here is numbers https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1542&p=32934#p32918
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
picture above shows BARO CORRECTION on rusEfi console
I do not understand how bar correction is related to your VE. "Picture above" is an example of a not specific data point, it's vague - there are too many pictures above
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
NO ...
it is Volumetric Efficiency
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Fields values are the same .. in rusefi console and tunerstudio
but X and Y axes are different ...
then "bad calculate may occur" ...
EDITED:
OK .. just the Y is diff.
but X and Y axes are different ...
then "bad calculate may occur" ...
EDITED:
OK .. just the Y is diff.
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
Fixed...
I don't now why or how ..
but it's working ...
I try downgrade to snapshot_20190222_0741_stm32f407_rusefi,
edit Y axis on VE Table on rusEFI console, to be the same as in TunerStudio
.. and it started to work ...
Then I try to upgrade (back) to snapshot_20190410_1924_stm32f407_rusefi,
create "brand new project" in TS, on my second laptop
.. and it still working fine . ..
I'm so sorry to waste your time ...
(it's some mismatch configuration during update process before, maybe ..)
I don't now why or how ..
but it's working ...
I try downgrade to snapshot_20190222_0741_stm32f407_rusefi,
edit Y axis on VE Table on rusEFI console, to be the same as in TunerStudio
.. and it started to work ...
Then I try to upgrade (back) to snapshot_20190410_1924_stm32f407_rusefi,
create "brand new project" in TS, on my second laptop
.. and it still working fine . ..
I'm so sorry to waste your time ...
(it's some mismatch configuration during update process before, maybe ..)
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Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
You can fix this easily with a multiMAP, a simple diode circuit that puts a separate MAP on each cylinder and sends the strongest signal to the ECU. On my engine with huge ITBs, cams and ports I see 35kpa at idle and a smooth transision to 100kpa at full throttle, and all points in between. I think getting good data to the ECU is a WAY!!!! better solution than trying to do fuel and spark control with different methodsJRD McLAREN wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:47 pm
On engines with ITB you have "two state" MAP value ..
Vacuum .. aprox 56-60kPa (on my engine)
and..
No vacuum .. aprox 85-92kPa
..nothing between..
Re: Engine control scenarios / modes
hey! do we consider the rover v8 like this
with a plenum chamber on top as an ITB?
with a plenum chamber on top as an ITB?