FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

here we go!
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I figured out I could install the headers once its part way in WAAAAY easier than once its actually in
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and in the the car, not bolted but in at least.
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670lb with everything that attaches to the engine
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Oil lines connected, they look like spaghetti, which I guess is appropriate?, oil filled and system primed, and the oil seems to be staying in the engine so that's good
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Went to install the alternator..oops, water pump first...oops, this hose really should go before the exhaust pipe
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But eventually I did at least get the alternator in place, wires on and 1 bolt in....this is the job from hell but that will need to be continued tomorrow.
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Still hoping for 1st first this weekend so pressing on as quickly as possible
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

alternator, axles, and exhaust in, coils and wiring next then systems checks while I wait for some hoses and clamps to arrive I guess.  Oh, need to pull the radiator and be sure the water based stuff is all out and the battery is shit at this point so I need to grab one of those too.
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Spent a lot of time today fixing the car I broke with the stump removal project (yup, ripped the hitch off) but that did give me a chance to push the ferrari out and get it turned around so if it again becomes a flamethrower it will be pointing in a harmless direction.  I also pulled the radiator and found about a pint of fluid hiding in it that I got cleaned out.  Hoses and clamps arrived today, tomorrow morning I'll grab a battery and see if I can get this thing running.
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by AndreyB »

mk e wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:12 am
get this thing running.
and then driving :)
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

AndreyB wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:07 am
mk e wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:12 am
get this thing running.
and then driving :)
Drive it? What kind of crazy talk it that? :lol:

...hopefully that day will come. Today ended with no throttle...I finally found a cap off the driver board so hopefully replacing it will solve the issue and it will run tomorrow.
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Put the cap back on but that was not the issue...it was the tach pulling too much power on the 5V buss so the tach is off-line for now to the throttle is back on.

A couple other little oddities...cranking I see about 10psi oil pressure which made me happy until I notice I was also seeing about 10psi fuel pressure with the pump off and no fuel in the tank...which left me with no confidence in the oil pressure. For sure when I first added oil it pumped the tank down about 2 quarts then stabilized which I assumed mean both feed and return pumps were pumping and thought the pressure reading confirmed that. Tomorrow I will add fuel and see what fuel pressure does and maybe disconnect the oil return line to see oil flowing....just to be sure.

I need to tie up a few wires in the wheel well so I can installed the rear wheels. I need to fill the coolant. I think the question tomorrow is how eaier do I try to make noise on a Sunday morning...10am I'm thinking.
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Had oil lines swapped to the filter, that took some time and a bit of an oil mess to sort but there is now 20+psi cranking - check

fill the coolant...hmm..nothing going in....front down, back up and 3 gallons in the last 3 were a waiting game while the thicker Evan's stuff leaked passed the pump and t-stat I guess. - check

fuel pump on...silence. just a wire pulled off the fuse block while I was troubleshooting the tach issue. Pump on....fuel on floor. Looks like the fuel rail is leaking into the V somewhere so the intakes need to come back off and that is a 5-6 hour job if I don't need new o-rings.

Sadly, that will conclude testing for today with no running or driving completed.
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Pulled the intakes and rail off, nothing obvious but the o-rings are generally sketchy to ordered new.

When I was cranking the engine to prime the oil pump I noticed I had like 10psi oil pressure and thought it fine....but then noticed I also has around 10psi fuel pressure with the fuel tank empty and pump off. Last night I discovered that the transducers read just fine on the bench but when they are installed and the chassis grounded they have a 0 offset...270mV on the oil pres and 330-370mV on the fuel as it drifts around 30-40mV. These are 2 brands from Amazon, as typical chinese stuff they look the same other than the marking on the casing...both are junk it seems. I'll try 1 more where a couple reviews specifically mention no/low offset for fuel (don't care for oil as long as its reading something so I know there is pressure) before ordering a $200 Honeywell version.
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

The new fuel pres sensor is much better, 71mV offset and seems stable.  The oil pressure still reads 0 with the 270mV offset so it appears stable. 

The manifold o-rings came yesterday, I bought 3x8mm instead of the standard 3x14.5mm to make it a little easier to assemble and they seems fine.  Just waiting on UPS to bring the rail o-rings now.  The plan this time is make sure the injectors are seated in the rail then pop in the manifold end because the fuel needs to be sealed but  a small vacuum leak doesn't really matter so I want all the risk shifted to the manifold end as best I can.
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by duhafnusa4 »

Congrats on the R&T article!
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

duhafnusa4 wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:17 pm
Congrats on the R&T article!
Is there something new or is this the old one? I see youtube views on an old video all of a sudden coming from R&T but a search didn't find anything new?
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

This is a challenging assembly.  I didn't have room for 2 fuel rails  or to assemble the rail to the TBs then drop the assembly into place so assembling relies on everything flexing enough to pop into place.
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I decided the rail wasn't sitting just right and was torquing against the  injectors so I sawed the end off and repositioned it a bit....and then there was fuel pressure.
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

I put the plugs in then spent some time trying to get the boots to right right and the wires resembling neat
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As long as I was making stuff a bit neating, I gorilla taped over the hack job I did on the stacks so they at least look right even if they aren't
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oh yeah, then I started it....a little....on staring fluid. I'll give everything a good look over and spend some time with the log now and be share everything there looks right before another go.

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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by AndreyB »

It starts!!! :)
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

yes! no bad noises, lots of oil pressure, no real leaks, so good so far other than an erratic fuel pressure. I'll get some more gas in the tank and see if that clears up that problem and then try to keep it running....tomorrow's a new day.
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Running, a couple 6-7k throttle snaps and 2k idle...pretty rich but running.
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

Wait.... It's running. :!: :o
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:17 pm
Wait.... It's running. :!: :o
I know, right?!? LOL
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by Zeiss »

Wow, awesome! Congratulations!
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

I tried resetting the TBs with feeler gauges this morning as a base sync while also playing with the ECU software to try to read them all....the feeler gauge method is pretty bad it turns out if my ECU programing is to be believed and this is after a couple quick roughing in adjustments. he linkage attaches to TB12 so that is the reference and will always show 0% error
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

The gauges are to help sync the TBs, they read % error from TB12 which is where the actuator is attached so it is always 0. Here it is after I played with it a bit, not prefect but much better.
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the graph below are the cylinder MAP reading that run the gauges....this looks to be working pretty well now so next run I will turn on the cylinder corrections and TBs sync'd or not each cylinder should get the same mixture.....at least that is how I THINK the code will work. With the TBs kind of matched now I should be able to get on with fixing the mixture.

Before this run I cleaned the plugs to get all the cylinders firing again and while they were out did a compression test..165-185 so not great but nothing is seated yet so it doesn't scare me yet.

I have a misfire function I'm playing with too....and it looks like its sort of working. It shows clean in the middle where I know for sure it was running well and lots of color at the end where for sure the plugs were again all loaded up and things were shutting down so helpful if not perfect I think. With the TBs kind of matched now and the misfire tool to tell me if I can trust the O2 readings I should be able to get on with fixing the mixture.

bottom graph is the 4 NBO2 sensor just kind of saying its pig rich except when there are misfires and also which quadrant is misfiring as another check. With the TBs mostly sync'd the 2 Wb02 sensors now agree its around .85-.88 lambda which is why its fouling plugs.
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Ok so.....

Fuel pressure issue tracked down to a solid state relay, replaced with mechanical relay and problem solved

Wednesday I tried the cylinder MAP correction....it was outputting gibberish

Thursdays tired again, no...its error doubling not error correcting

Friday, its running pretty good with the ecu auto matching mixtures. I spent a little time on tuning so after I pull it and fix whatever is causing the rear bank to be running on oil rather the gasoline it should fire right back up so for those worried that this project was wrapping up....nope!

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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

k-seal chrstmas miracle....a mostly reseal head gasket
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

that is idling at about 1500 full hot btw. The throttles are effectively fully closed and that got me to about 2200? so I pulled out some timing, its at 13 degrees now. Once I get a bit more confident I'll pull out a bit more timing and try to get it to 1000 or so...but honestly just having it idle at all has me thrilled.
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

sadly I think i was over optimistic and the Christmas miracle was ether.  When I have clean plugs and start with ether all the cylinders run...and burn the waterless coolant and I see a little blue smoke.  when the cylinders cut out the coolant vaporizes in the hot pipe and I see a cloud of white smoke.  I tried some more of the one they say is stronger just now and will do a couple more heat cycles tomorrow....then I assume monday I'll order new gaskets and start pulling the motor.  2-3 weeks.

I did drive it around the block.  The new steering felt good the new final drive ratio felt odd...1st gear and reverse  are quite fast, the engine was running awful, very very lean..please make it home, please make it home....but I drove it for the first time in 15 years and the 1 car I past the guy had his thumb up and head out the window looking at it :)
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Before pulolng the engine I'm trying a head re-torque thewre3 was quite a bit of movement so fingerer crossed, just need new cam cover gaskets to put it back together.

I will need to relocate the coils is seems....5 of the connector lock clips just snapped off and the heatshrink and black wrap are not quite how I left then...the coils are blocking up what little air flow the front headers get it seems but at least the wires are still good, this is way I like the tefzel aircraft grade wire it tolerates my mistakes.
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by AndreyB »

Some crunchy wiring?
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

AndreyB wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:48 pm
Some crunchy wiring?
The wire itself is still good as its high temp insolated (tefzel) but the sheathing not so much. Way too close to the headers......
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Here's the good news for the day.
-It fired right back up
-God I just love hearing this thing run
-With the new o-rings on the injector at the intake and all the TB springs installed (I had pulled off 8 to lighten the load on the actuator trying to stay under 5A to use the ECU driver...didn't work) it was no problem to get the engine idling down to 700 at least before I sync'd the TBs and not sure all the cylinders stayed running down there,  I re-set to about 1150 for now.
-the TBs are much easier to sync now, getting them matched to 5% total error took less than 5 minutes.  I could have gotten them better with a little more time but didn't see the need for now.
- got to driver it out of the garage rather than push it and I continue to be thrilled every time it moves under its own power
-power steering sure is nice turning the car around in the driveway
-oil pressure was way more stable with the 20-50 break-in oil rather than the 30wt I used last time
-tach is working...it seems a little sticky but its working

Bad news for the day
-yeah, the head gaskets are no more sealed than they were before so it needs to come apart.
-no idea where I'm going to move the coils  
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