1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
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1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Hi All
I'm back for another round of RUSefi fun. This will be my third RUSefi project. Saw Andrey and Stephan at NJMP a few weeks back and now I'm building a Proteus for my 5.0.
This is my car. This is the powerplant With the Factory ECU it's best run was 11.083 @120.89mph all motor. First Objective is to get the Proteus running the car as well as it runs now. Then look at changing the car over from a distributor to distributor less ignition and see if improvements are to be had.
I have a Proteus and the ford 60 pin adapter board. I've run into a number of issues so far. The largest is the pinouts explained for the 60 pin in other threads is not what I'm seeing on the board tracing leads. So I have the multimeter out tracing leads right now just to make sure all connections are there or where ever they are and getting them corrected.
I'm back for another round of RUSefi fun. This will be my third RUSefi project. Saw Andrey and Stephan at NJMP a few weeks back and now I'm building a Proteus for my 5.0.
This is my car. This is the powerplant With the Factory ECU it's best run was 11.083 @120.89mph all motor. First Objective is to get the Proteus running the car as well as it runs now. Then look at changing the car over from a distributor to distributor less ignition and see if improvements are to be had.
I have a Proteus and the ford 60 pin adapter board. I've run into a number of issues so far. The largest is the pinouts explained for the 60 pin in other threads is not what I'm seeing on the board tracing leads. So I have the multimeter out tracing leads right now just to make sure all connections are there or where ever they are and getting them corrected.
Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Welcome back!
Can you please reference where you found the pinouts that don't agree with what you have, so we can verify?
Can you please reference where you found the pinouts that don't agree with what you have, so we can verify?
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
It's about https://github.com/rusefi/proteus-mustang5.0-60-pin
Let's focus on having TPS working, that's kind of basic. Looks like we agree on GND pin vehicle46 and +5v pin vehicle26 and TPS signal on vehicle47 routed to Proteus AV#8 but sensor is not sensing.
Let's focus on having TPS working, that's kind of basic. Looks like we agree on GND pin vehicle46 and +5v pin vehicle26 and TPS signal on vehicle47 routed to Proteus AV#8 but sensor is not sensing.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
So after trying to run with the 60 pin board from the above pictures I ran into a couple issues.
1. The fuel pump ran constantly
2. The TPS would not read correctly at all.
3. ECT and ACT were not measuring correctly.
So my hope/expectation after deeper diagnosis is many of these issues were created by the adapter board I was using. Tomorrow I will hopefully have enough time to complete testing this configuration and if I'm right my only issues left will be to figure out what type of temp sensors I have so they will read correctly. I don't believe the default are working right.
More to come.
1. The fuel pump ran constantly
2. The TPS would not read correctly at all.
3. ECT and ACT were not measuring correctly.
So my hope/expectation after deeper diagnosis is many of these issues were created by the adapter board I was using. Tomorrow I will hopefully have enough time to complete testing this configuration and if I'm right my only issues left will be to figure out what type of temp sensors I have so they will read correctly. I don't believe the default are working right.
More to come.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
recommendation: use the old explorer cam sensor. Its direct replacement for the distributor https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/camshaft_position_sensor_cmp.shtml
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."
-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
When I get to that part I will take your advice and look into that.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
So I got a chance to test my adapter cable and amazingly a lot fo things are working much better. There are apparently many issues to sort out with the adapter board.
1. TPS appears to work correctly now.
2. Fuel Pump appears to work correctly now.
3. Temp sensors and MAP sensor are not reading correctly. I have not gone through and tested all the different sensors with the new cable yet. That's the next move on this one.
So the adapter board is what created most of the nightmare so far. Any help on what sensors are similar to the factory mustang sensors for MAP, CLT and ACT. Should be able to have this running soon.
1. TPS appears to work correctly now.
2. Fuel Pump appears to work correctly now.
3. Temp sensors and MAP sensor are not reading correctly. I have not gone through and tested all the different sensors with the new cable yet. That's the next move on this one.
So the adapter board is what created most of the nightmare so far. Any help on what sensors are similar to the factory mustang sensors for MAP, CLT and ACT. Should be able to have this running soon.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Wow
https://github.com/rusefi/proteus-mustang5.0-60-pin/issues/14 created sounds like we are ready for EE-capable people to evaluate at least the TPS and fuel pump part of the https://github.com/rusefi/proteus-mustang5.0-60-pin/ design
https://github.com/rusefi/proteus-mustang5.0-60-pin/issues/14 created sounds like we are ready for EE-capable people to evaluate at least the TPS and fuel pump part of the https://github.com/rusefi/proteus-mustang5.0-60-pin/ design
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Ok so today I found what I think is the ford sensor info for my car. The IAT and ECT seem to be reading correct. It was 70 degrees outside and the engine air and ECT were reading in the high 60's 67/69 degrees. So I think what I entered is reasonable close. was hoping someone on here could look at this and validate or tell me what I've got wrong. I think I'm very close to trying to fire the car.
My open issues list so far is.
- Bench Test is not working. Even though the fuel pump appears to prime and I can change the time settings and they seem to take. When I go into bench test and click fuel pump I get nothing. This also goes for the Injectors I hear nothing but suspect the ECU can see them and they are wired correctly. I think this is a bench test issue from within tuner studio. This is making me nervous about turning the start key.
- I also have a timing question. At the factory Ford sets the Distributor at 10 degrees. So if I tell tuner Studio 30 degrees of timing am I giving it a total of 40 is my thinking. Is this thinking correct?
Once I figure these out I think it might be ready to fire.
My open issues list so far is.
- Bench Test is not working. Even though the fuel pump appears to prime and I can change the time settings and they seem to take. When I go into bench test and click fuel pump I get nothing. This also goes for the Injectors I hear nothing but suspect the ECU can see them and they are wired correctly. I think this is a bench test issue from within tuner studio. This is making me nervous about turning the start key.
- I also have a timing question. At the factory Ford sets the Distributor at 10 degrees. So if I tell tuner Studio 30 degrees of timing am I giving it a total of 40 is my thinking. Is this thinking correct?
Once I figure these out I think it might be ready to fire.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Please try bench test from ruzEFI console. If that hrlps jpdate all software.
TS bench was broken, fixed maybe a mongh ago
TS bench was broken, fixed maybe a mongh ago
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
In the event we can make these option in tuner studio these are the sensors in the car from the factory.
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-12644A/Mustang-Barometric-Air-Pressure-Sensor-Bap-Sensor-89-93-50L
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-12648A/83-95-Ford-Mustang-50L-Coolant-Temperature-Sensor
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-12697A/1984-1993-Mustang-50L-Air-Charge-Temperature-Sensor
It would be nice to have them in tuner studio.
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-12644A/Mustang-Barometric-Air-Pressure-Sensor-Bap-Sensor-89-93-50L
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-12648A/83-95-Ford-Mustang-50L-Coolant-Temperature-Sensor
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-12697A/1984-1993-Mustang-50L-Air-Charge-Temperature-Sensor
It would be nice to have them in tuner studio.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
The SW I have is 2 month old. After I posted that I went to look and see how far behind I was. So I'm in the process of updating all the SW now anyhow. so I'll try that and if that's still not working I'll go to the console. Thanks.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Ok so the Upgrade fixed the test bench in TS. I have injectors but I lost my IAT,CLT and other settings when I upgraded. If anyone can explain how to upgrade without loosing settings that would be helpful. I most likely didn't do something right.
I found the offset for the timing so I have that worked out. I think it might be ready to start.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Well gave it a shot and it did not start. Appears to be a spark issue. Not quite sure where. Cylinders smell like gas so it's getting fuel and air. Everything else appears to be working.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
All I can do is to create https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi_documentation/issues/233
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Ok Looking for some help verifying what I'm thinking is wrong with my Ignition setup.
Pin 4 on the ECU goes to the Coil and the Dist. but it's wired to Analog Inp 5 (This was taken from the original adapter board configration)
Pin 56 is the PIP and This is Wired to Digital Hall 1
Pin 16 id ground and goes to ground
Pin 36 goes to the Distributor Spout and is wired to Digital Hall 3.
My suspicion is Pin 4 needs to be moved to one of the IGN pins and set as the single coil. Everything else should be fine. Is this correct thinking?
Pin 4 on the ECU goes to the Coil and the Dist. but it's wired to Analog Inp 5 (This was taken from the original adapter board configration)
Pin 56 is the PIP and This is Wired to Digital Hall 1
Pin 16 id ground and goes to ground
Pin 36 goes to the Distributor Spout and is wired to Digital Hall 3.
My suspicion is Pin 4 needs to be moved to one of the IGN pins and set as the single coil. Everything else should be fine. Is this correct thinking?
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Latest news I have spark now. Running though checking timing and few other things and then we'll add Gas back and see if it runs.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Where was it hiding and how did you find it?
I was thinking about you and your spark while getting ready for bed yesterday
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Well I'm not sure it was hiding. but I'm not sure my spark is working right. When I test it, it does not appear to be adjusting. So I goin a set timing a not dynamic and set it to 0 degrees. When I crank the car the spark is at 14 degrees. Now this is technically correct because the distributor is installed at 14 degrees not 0. But if I change the spark setting from 0 to 20 degrees it does not move. it's still showing 14 degrees. So it does not appear proteus can see my distributor. I'm not sure at this point where to look.
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- Ignition.jpg (87.04 KiB) Viewed 71850 times
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Ok so we tried changing the Ignition signal from the IDM PIN4 on the ecu to the spout wire. Now I'm not sure what's up with the proteus board sending back for analysis. So don't try that.
I'm attaching the wiring diagram for the car. Stephan after you see this give me a call thanks.
I'm attaching the wiring diagram for the car. Stephan after you see this give me a call thanks.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Hey Stephan you were right about the spout controlling the timing
This video explain and shows how the signals work from the PIP and Spout. The IDM or Pin4 is the coil wire. It's the spout that controls ignition timing not sure how to interpret the signal discussion in the video here but I think it explains very well what's going on.
Pin56 - PIP is the base dist signal wire. Maybe this should be used like a crank sensor
Pin4 - IDM goes to the coil ground
Pin 36 - is the spout this is the wire that controls spark advance everything I see says it's a input wire.
This video explain and shows how the signals work from the PIP and Spout. The IDM or Pin4 is the coil wire. It's the spout that controls ignition timing not sure how to interpret the signal discussion in the video here but I think it explains very well what's going on.
Pin56 - PIP is the base dist signal wire. Maybe this should be used like a crank sensor
Pin4 - IDM goes to the coil ground
Pin 36 - is the spout this is the wire that controls spark advance everything I see says it's a input wire.
Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
You are correct. The PIP is actually a CAM sensor, since it's driven by the camshaft, so only one rotation per full cycle. SPOUT is what we need to drive from the rusEFI board.Kyocmondeo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:06 pmHey Stephan you were right about the spout controlling the timing
This video explain and shows how the signals work from the PIP and Spout. The IDM or Pin4 is the coil wire. It's the spout that controls ignition timing not sure how to interpret the signal discussion in the video here but I think it explains very well what's going on.
Pin56 - PIP is the base dist signal wire. Maybe this should be used like a crank sensor
Pin4 - IDM goes to the coil ground
Pin 36 - is the spout this is the wire that controls spark advance everything I see says it's a input wire.
For initial testing, let's keep the SPOUT disconnected and just connect the PIP. crank the engine and take a log with the engine sniffer in the console. Then let's make sure that signal is interpreted correctly.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Test with no ECU attached PIP Signal test with volt meter.
KEY OFF
.17 voltage reading.
KEY OFF CRANKING
.00 Voltage reading
KEY ON
.05 Voltage Reading
KEY ON CRANKING
4.98 Peak Voltage reading (bounced around)
KEY OFF
.17 voltage reading.
KEY OFF CRANKING
.00 Voltage reading
KEY ON
.05 Voltage Reading
KEY ON CRANKING
4.98 Peak Voltage reading (bounced around)
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
How is the fancy cable - can you now have laptop while cranking in the cabin?
Please provide exact URL of tune and log on rusEFI online
We have trigger->triggerVvtXXX counters to confirm life on the wire
also in console we have readPin command like
readPin PC6
readPin PE12
depend on what digital input you want to read directly see https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/master/firmware/config/boards/proteus/connectors/black23.yaml for all Pxyy values for digital
Please provide exact URL of tune and log on rusEFI online
We have trigger->triggerVvtXXX counters to confirm life on the wire
also in console we have readPin command like
readPin PC6
readPin PE12
depend on what digital input you want to read directly see https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/master/firmware/config/boards/proteus/connectors/black23.yaml for all Pxyy values for digital
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
The Cable is very fancy and works very well thank you very much....
So let me see if I get you correctly. You want me to setup gages for....
triggerPrimaryFall and triggerPrimaryRise and that will read the trigger wire for any input.
You're not expecting me to use triggerVvtFall correct?
So let me see if I get you correctly. You want me to setup gages for....
triggerPrimaryFall and triggerPrimaryRise and that will read the trigger wire for any input.
You're not expecting me to use triggerVvtFall correct?
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
ok so I was able to run the trigger gage test. I added the gages in the pic. When I crank the car the 0.000 in the gage starts counting. The needles didn't seem to move at all. But if I'm understanding you correctly this is the signal we're seeing on the wire.
Now the million dollar question is why do I not get a RPM reading?????
Now the million dollar question is why do I not get a RPM reading?????
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Please paste exact URL of your current tune and a log of cranking attempt at https://rusefi.com/online
All the answers are there, in the tune and in the logs
Events coming in is great news!!!
All the answers are there, in the tune and in the logs
Events coming in is great news!!!
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=1243
Thats the Tune I tried uploading a log and it didn;t seem to like it. So I attached it here.
Thats the Tune I tried uploading a log and it didn;t seem to like it. So I attached it here.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
The log doesn't tell me much. There are no fields that seem to contain pertinent data on the trigger. Could somebody with more knowledge please chime in and say which fields would be helpful if logged?
To summarize the problem: When cranking, the edge counters increase, but we don't see rpm. A test in the engine sniffer didn't show any trigger info.
To summarize the problem: When cranking, the edge counters increase, but we don't see rpm. A test in the engine sniffer didn't show any trigger info.
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Re: 1988 Mustang LX 5.0 ( Proteus Project )
Please use TS logs not SD card logs Only the TS logs have all the sweet data at the moment
We log 600 data points via Tuner Studio "start log" button
At the moment SD card has only about 60 data points
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/3985
We log 600 data points via Tuner Studio "start log" button
At the moment SD card has only about 60 data points
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/3985
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