[rusEfi] 1996 Ford Aspire #1!
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
1996 Ford Aspire #1!
That would be the technical thread about my test vehicle
Sequential injection, stock ECU uses MAF as an engine load sensor. There is a single coil inside the distributor.
The two signals from camshaft position sensor are
Injectors: Denso 195500-2110, 120cc, purple, 13.9 ohms
Single ignition coil: low-side driven with 5v pull-up resistor
MAF sensor outputs current, in the stock ECU a 1000 Ohm pull-down resistor is used.
Current mods: Honda MAP sensor
Sequential injection, stock ECU uses MAF as an engine load sensor. There is a single coil inside the distributor.
The two signals from camshaft position sensor are
Injectors: Denso 195500-2110, 120cc, purple, 13.9 ohms
Single ignition coil: low-side driven with 5v pull-up resistor
MAF sensor outputs current, in the stock ECU a 1000 Ohm pull-down resistor is used.
Current mods: Honda MAP sensor
- Attachments
-
- ford_aspire.jpg (54.48 KiB) Viewed 6984 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
The bare minimum of wires to start the car would be
1U fuel pump
2B/9 MAF sensor
3A/1 GND
3B/14 +12 power in start & run
3C GND
3F CKP sensor
3G CID sensor
3N/20 spark out
3U, 3V, 3W, 3X injectors
1U fuel pump
2B/9 MAF sensor
3A/1 GND
3B/14 +12 power in start & run
3C GND
3F CKP sensor
3G CID sensor
3N/20 spark out
3U, 3V, 3W, 3X injectors
- Attachments
-
- 20131227_195825.jpg (123.95 KiB) Viewed 23699 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
Phase #2:
2F/11 throttle position sensor (TPS)
2I/5 Vref: +5v TPS power supply
2G/4 engine coolant temperature (CLT)
2O/8 'sensor return' - that's another GND needed for the sensors to function
3Q/9 Idle Air Control valve (IAC)
1E/3 Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL)
2F/11 throttle position sensor (TPS)
2I/5 Vref: +5v TPS power supply
2G/4 engine coolant temperature (CLT)
2O/8 'sensor return' - that's another GND needed for the sensors to function
3Q/9 Idle Air Control valve (IAC)
1E/3 Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL)
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
Everything begins with cranking and cranking is pretty interesting. Stock Aspire ECU logic for cranking is
a) ignition dwell is controlled directly by the secondary camshaft trigger wheel: coil starts charging on the tooth start and fires at the tooth end. So, ignition dwell is defined in angle, not in absolute time as in running mode. Another thing worth noting is that cranking speed is not exactly constant, this should be considered for the purposes of event scheduling - scheduling solely by one event per revolution would not give you much precision.
b) while Aspire has sequential injection, it squirts fuel into all cylinders simultaneously four times per camshaft revolution, so x4 time. Also the squirts are pretty long - while idle squirt would be around 3ms, while cranking stock ECU does around 15ms x 4 times per camshaft revolution, depending on coolant temperature.
I could not start my engines for the few days before I've realized that it is now colder and increased the lowest temperature fuel squirt duration to 20ms.
a) ignition dwell is controlled directly by the secondary camshaft trigger wheel: coil starts charging on the tooth start and fires at the tooth end. So, ignition dwell is defined in angle, not in absolute time as in running mode. Another thing worth noting is that cranking speed is not exactly constant, this should be considered for the purposes of event scheduling - scheduling solely by one event per revolution would not give you much precision.
b) while Aspire has sequential injection, it squirts fuel into all cylinders simultaneously four times per camshaft revolution, so x4 time. Also the squirts are pretty long - while idle squirt would be around 3ms, while cranking stock ECU does around 15ms x 4 times per camshaft revolution, depending on coolant temperature.
I could not start my engines for the few days before I've realized that it is now colder and increased the lowest temperature fuel squirt duration to 20ms.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
A moment of silence for the solenoid on the starter. Over the last 12 months, this solenoid has seen so much work as some solenoids see in their lifetime.
We will never forget the sacrifice of this hero solenoid. It's death would not be in vain!
We will never forget the sacrifice of this hero solenoid. It's death would not be in vain!
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
I am not getting it - I cannot start a cold engine 20F/-7C cold. I have to use stock ECU, warm up the engine to some temp, and when it would fire up as a charm. I am just missing something I am using way longer fuel pulses - like 30ms long full batching, that's a lot for a 1.3 engine.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
What are you doing about spark advance? Often with electronic ignition, it will also multi spark at low RPM. Can you make it spark more than once during cranking?
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
I am trying to copy the stock ECU behavior. While cranking, stock ECU uses the shape of the CKP signal for spark - i.e. spark dwell is more like 20ms and not 4ms like it is while running, and the discharge point is the fall of CKP signal.kb1gtt wrote:What are you doing about spark advance?
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
an interesting remark from the workshop manual (might be off topic, but it's about increased pulse times!)
Engine fuel temperature sensor (EFT Sensor)
This is another resistive sensor. Located on the fuel rail it measures temperature of the rail rather than the fuel. The resistance varies with changes in temperature. The signal is used to increase the injection pulse time when undergoing hot restarts. When the fuel is hot, vapourisation occurs in the rail and bubbles can occur in the injectors. Increasing the pulse time flushes the bubbles away, and cools the fuel rail with fuel from the tank. The fault may not be evident to the driver, there may be a hot restart problem. The fault is indicated by illumination of the malfunction indicator light (MIL) on North American specification vehicles.
it might be you're overflooding the cylinders?
btw, I was thinking of obtaining a stroboscope before converting from mechanical distributer to electronic system.
Engine fuel temperature sensor (EFT Sensor)
This is another resistive sensor. Located on the fuel rail it measures temperature of the rail rather than the fuel. The resistance varies with changes in temperature. The signal is used to increase the injection pulse time when undergoing hot restarts. When the fuel is hot, vapourisation occurs in the rail and bubbles can occur in the injectors. Increasing the pulse time flushes the bubbles away, and cools the fuel rail with fuel from the tank. The fault may not be evident to the driver, there may be a hot restart problem. The fault is indicated by illumination of the malfunction indicator light (MIL) on North American specification vehicles.
it might be you're overflooding the cylinders?
btw, I was thinking of obtaining a stroboscope before converting from mechanical distributer to electronic system.
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
В этом варианте как понимаю всё работает по ДМРВ(MAF), вопрос где ты нашел тарировку датчика?
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
а по ДПДЗ (TPS) будешь пробывать?
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
Нигде не нашёл. Я не знаю тарировки датчика, да она мне и не нужна - я работаю с датчиком просто как с источником сигнала, который растёт с ростом расхода воздуха.mivaol wrote:MAF - вопрос где ты нашел тарировку датчика?
Нет, потому что у меня нет времени И не думаю, что скоро появится.rus084 wrote: а по ДПДЗ (TPS) будешь пробывать?
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
А как тогда рассчитываешь массу впрыска? Просто на то он и маф что измеренную массу воздуха делим на AFR получаем массу топлива, производим нужные корректировки над ним и впрыскиваем.russian wrote:Нигде не нашёл. Я не знаю тарировки датчика, да она мне и не нужна - я работаю с датчиком просто как с источником сигнала, который растёт с ростом расхода воздуха.mivaol wrote:MAF - вопрос где ты нашел тарировку датчика?
Грубо я свой уже от тарировал, теперь в планах более точно составить таблицу думал может есть готовые решения.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
Никак не рассчитываем никакие массы. я не знаю физического расхода воздуха, да и физическую производительность форсунок точно не знаю ни я ни ты. У нас тут так много неизвестных в наших уравнениях, что я сторонник разумно-табличного подхода.mivaol wrote:получаем массу топлива, производим нужные корректировки над ним и впрыскиваем.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
а зачем его вобще тарировать , если есть топливная таблица ?
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: 1996 Ford Aspire
Sold Will need to get a different test mule one I settle down in the new place.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute