Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Your chance to introduce yourself and to ask your first question
Post Reply
User avatar
reymiguel
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:08 pm
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan

Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by reymiguel » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:26 pm

Hi there!

I leared about rusEFI through Judge Phil at the 24 Hours of Lemons. Later, the computer on my 1991 Honda Beat gave up. (Then I made it worse with some terrible soldering.) So, instead of the big dollars for a new computer, I'm giving rusEFI a shot. Also, I work on the content team for Hagerty and, assuming I get this thing running smooth again, will be documenting the process and spreading the word to the masses!

The Honda has a 656cc 3 cylinder, and the wiring harness looks like the outboard two clusters of a standard OBDI connection. So I'm hoping that'll make things pretty straightforward. If anybody has some advice off the bat, I'll take it.

Glad to be here!
Mike

User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3444
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA
Contact:

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by kb1gtt » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:58 pm

You might want to consider an adapter board similar to this.
https://rusefi.com//forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=507

This would allow you to connect to the OEM connector instead of hacking apart your existing harness. You can commonly get a salvage yard ECU and get the connector from that.

If you can get it to work, or partially work on the OEM ECU, you might also want to consider this migration board.
https://rusefi.com//forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=454
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9599
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by russian » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:01 am

reymiguel wrote:standard OBDI connection
I think what you are saying is that your Honda is using what people call "honda OBDI" plugs which are same plugs our Miatas are using or some Toyota. I believe this is not really a standard, just the plug popular with early 90s Japanese vehicles.

On the one hand Frankenso boards have cross-wiring section where you can set the connector for any pinout - that would not be done via the software, that would be just setting where wires go like in a phone booth. Only problem this flexibility covers 95% of the pins with the exception of camshaft/crankshaft position sensors in case of VR type sensors because of EE magic - kb1gtt would elaborate. Your car is a Honda from the 90s makes me guess a few VR sensors. So with all nuances I think the safest way to go is making an adapter between a Miata-frankenso board (since the one I can loan you is already soldered) and your OEM Honda harness.

https://www.tindie.com/products/russian ... -bare-pcb/ is the board and on the right there are options to add connector and pigtail. Does https://www.tindie.com/products/russian ... connector/ looks like your connector?

First step is getting tachometer signal into rusEfi - so you would crank and you want the board to know that you have 200 RPM. Aslo at some point you would need a wideband sensor with controller. I believe there is more at https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... gine_start
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
reymiguel
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:08 pm
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by reymiguel » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:18 pm

To clarify yes, probably not a standard. But the car uses the A and D sections of the Honda and Mazda OBDI connectors of the era. So I should be able to use the 64-pin connector and just not connect to the middle (B) section.

The engine runs off the stock ECU, just poorly and with a constant check light that indicates a bad computer. Am I thinking about this correctly in that I would plug in the stock pigtail to a 64-pin connector on a bare PCB and then run two pigtails off that - one to the stock ECU and one to Frankenso - to slowly migrate the signals?

Here's a pinout diagram that should be highly useful.
Image

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9599
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by russian » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:32 pm

reymiguel wrote:stock pigtail to a 64-pin connector on a bare PCB and then run two pigtails off that - one to the stock ECU and one to Frankenso - to slowly migrate the signals?
yes connector on PCB but only one pigtail going into this Frankenso. I am pretty sure we can figure out all signals without running both ECUs at the same time.

The adapter in between is only there to reduce the hacking of your harness and hacking of loaner Frankenso board.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3444
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA
Contact:

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:06 am

I agree, if you have the OEM connector, you shouldn't need the break out board, or the migration board. You should be able to connect OEM connector. The pinout of the Frankenso can be adapted with those W jumpers near the connector on the Frankenso board.
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)

User avatar
reymiguel
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:08 pm
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by reymiguel » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:13 pm

Breakout board and pigtail (for adapting the loaner Frankenso) ordered. Woot.

Possible dumb question: Can I just use the stock O2 sensor instead of a wideband sensor? (I assume the mention of needing that at some point is for making a fuel map, correct?)

User avatar
reymiguel
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:08 pm
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by reymiguel » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:25 pm

Got the answer on the wideband sensor from another thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1275). For anyone reading this, here's the quote from kb1gtt:
O2 sensors are mostly emissions and long term adjustments and perhaps identification of lean operation caused by a fuel pump which cannot deliver enough fuel. You should be able to tune for max power via butt dyno, and that will typically cause you to run rich. However if your fuel pump is to small, then you may command more fuel and it simply would not make it into the engine. This is where an O2 can be useful, as you could see that you are running lean. In lieu of the butt dyno, the O2 sensor can be used to get your AFR close to peak horse power, or to allow Tuner Studio's auto-tuning to do it's thing. Tuner Studio auto tune will require a wide band. I would say don't worry about the O2 for now, but plan for it long term. The OEM narrow band is next to worthless. The NO2's are really just for emissions. Running rich is OK, and it's common that performance folks will run rich specifically using the fuel to help cool the engine. The two things you are looking for is unexpectedly running lean, and peak HP with out dumping extra fuel.

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9599
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by russian » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:05 am

I've got your order but my trip just got extended, it's going to be another week until I get home :(
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
reymiguel
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:08 pm
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by reymiguel » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:51 pm

No worries. I have a working salvage computer coming Wednesday so I'll get some running in during the last few weeks of the season, and then I'll have some kind of reference to compare the rusEFI to once everything is working on that side.

User avatar
reymiguel
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:08 pm
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by reymiguel » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:16 am

Okay, I have the connectors and the pigtails. 64-pin connector soldered onto the bare PCB. rusEFI console is working and I can connect to the demo computer.

And now I have very little idea of what I'm doing. Where do I start with wiring the pigtail to the PCB? Should I map it so that the OEM pigtail bridges to the correct pin for rusEFI defaults?

Thanks

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9599
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by russian » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:53 am

https://rusefi.com//wiki/index.php?titl ... enso_board is your new friend

I would start with finding how to power the board and getting tachometer to show corrent RPM while you are cranking. You would need to add a couple of resistors - the loaner board you have does not have VR pull-downs. See https://rusefi.com//wiki/index.php?titl ... re_Trigger

Step 1 - power Frankenso via your adapter from your car?
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
reymiguel
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:08 pm
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by reymiguel » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:08 pm

Working on it, but a few things in life are making it a slow go. I should be able to get all the main signals sorted out.

Quick question: 12V power comes into two pins on the stock harness. Should I bridge those so that both are going into 12V on the rusEFI?

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9599
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by russian » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:02 pm

Why bridge? I would just use one.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
reymiguel
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:08 pm
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan

Re: Hello from Michigan, rusEFI on a Honda Beat!

Post by reymiguel » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:23 pm

Long overdue update: This project is on hiatus. I managed to send the factory ECU to a shop in Japan that does repairs so the car is in working order again, but I do want to revisit getting this running on the Beat or one of my other cars.

Post Reply