Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by russian » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:36 pm

I have no idea :( My best question is - how are all the wires connector? Do you have alligator clips on the sensor plug? How is the pigtail extended - soldering or no soldering?

I have no idea if this could be the source of the problem :(
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:14 pm

For VR I expect W1002 and W1003 to be open. I see they are shorted with a 0R resistor. I would suggest removing the 0R jumper.
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by russian » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:49 pm

kb1gtt wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:14 pm
For VR I expect W1002 and W1003 to be open. I see they are shorted with a 0R resistor. I would suggest removing the 0R jumper.
Historically all VR I've seen running have one wire GNDed.
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:16 pm

???? Page 12 of the below,
https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/ ... AX9927.pdf

It notes
In Mode A2, an internally generated reference voltage is used to bias the differential amplifier and all internal circuitry instead of an external
voltage connected to the BIAS input—this helps reduce external components and design variables leading to a more robust application.
So I expect the internal switch to connect IN#+ to 2.5V and then when ever the IN#- crosses 2.5V it toggles the output. However we also have the bias pin connected to GND. If it were a different mode, then I would expect the external bias to be used, and if that happens then I would expect you want to connect IN#+ to GND and detect when it crosses the 0V level.

I think I'm hearing that for some reason, it's using the external bias reference. That seems odd to me. Any how, if it works it works. I wonder why this one is not working.

Perhaps try soldering a big fat wire from a GND point on the Frankenso, and run one to the engine block, and another to the battery negative terminal. Also run a GND wire between the engine block and the battery negative. A good ground connection is required. Make sure the contacts are clean shinny metal. Also keep in mind that with 0 RPM the 85mS watch dog will crank up the gain. This can make it more susceptible to noise issues. You might see noise issues go away as soon as you start cranking the engine.
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by russian » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:08 am

Here is my Frankenso with one channel set for VR (i.e. one wire GND using two 0R resistors) and 2 meters / six pieces of twisted wires with no shielding and some random VR sensor and waving a piece of metal. Zero RPM in case of no activity, usually noise reading in case of wire touching and somewhat high RPM reading in case of metal waving.



@Kavabanga can you please reproduce this? Maybe get a new cheap VR sensor from a parts store? Shorter wires? Not sure what else could be different :(
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by Kavabanga » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:04 pm

russian wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:08 am
@Kavabanga can you please reproduce this? Maybe get a new cheap VR sensor from a parts store? Shorter wires? Not sure what else could be different :(
Did you connected sensor by left or right channel?
You connected to console by mini-usb on Frankenso or by micro-usb on STM32?

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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by Kavabanga » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:41 pm

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:34 am
Regarding the VR sensor - That looks like you might be able to stick a Bosch Hall sensor in the same hole as you cam sensor. What diameter is it and I will check one of the Bosch ones I have kicking about.
Hello! Sorry for big delay
I measured some Camshaft VR-sensor parameters: core diameter of sensor is 20 mm, length of cylinder of core is 40 mm

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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by russian » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:05 am

Kavabanga wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:04 pm
Did you connected sensor by left or right channel?
You connected to console by mini-usb on Frankenso or by micro-usb on STM32?
left channel
microUSB on stm32
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by Kavabanga » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:31 pm

Hi everybody!
So, today i tried to connect console to Frankenso by micro-usb on STM32 (Usually i make it by mini-usb on Frankenso)
1. If i connect just crankshaft position sensor, console is printing, that RPM is 0. If i try to rotate engine by electric starter, RPM still be 0, i dont see nothing in "engine sniffer"
2. If i connect crankshaft and camshaft position sensor, party time is start! Console is printing me "Noise" in RPM value, but engine isn`t rotate. If i try to rotate engine by electric starter, i can see that pictures.
In this pictures you can see what i can see if i try to rotate engine with different values in "Engine sniffer size" and "Frequency"
Is it normal picture for triggers?
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by russian » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:26 pm

I have changed trigger definition for "Honda CBR 600" trigger, please adjust your setting to use "Honda CBR 600" trigger

Ideally your engine sniffer would be showing this:
Image
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by Kavabanga » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:24 pm

So, what i have now:
If you remember, i had a big problem with noises from VR-sensor on cam- and crankshaft.
Every day i tried to solve this problem, make something thith that. But always had troubles. And today i just tooked two resistors, which was near my hands on my table. I don`t even know they nominals. So, i tooked resistors and install they parallel to the sensors. And noises was disappeared... And now it works good! I think... Because i haven`t tried it on the engine yet. Just with metal bolts
So, maybe somebody now, what nominal of resistors is better for my sensors?

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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by Kavabanga » Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:50 am

Hi everybody!
This is what i have now (look at the pictures)
This data was recieved then engine was rotated by starter. And, despite fears, RusEFI "can see" all teeth on crank- and camshaft. That`s great! But resistors parallel to Honda VR sensors are necessary.
Also, RusEFI can receive data from ECT. But ECT has three wires to connect to Honda ECU, but RusEFI need just two wires from this sensor to good work (one wire to desired pin, one to ground). Now it is magic for me, but it works good and data, which i can see in console and Tunerstudio is true.
So, now i am waiting then my colleague will make carbon receiver and waiting for Innovate
I hope, all what i will make later will easy and my engine will start and work good.
@Russian, thank you very much for support!
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by russian » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:02 am

Kavabanga wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:50 am
But ECT has three wires to connect to Honda ECU, but RusEFI need just two wires from this sensor to good work (one wire to desired pin, one to ground). Now it is magic for me
Some sensor unit have two sensors integrated in one body, for example one provides analog data for gauge and another provides a switch for fan relay.

Your pictures seem somewhat close to expected, looks sweet!

You do not really need Innovate WBO to start your engine. Do you really need intake to start the engine? Can you throttle it somehow on a temporary basis?
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by Kavabanga » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:13 am

I have just one engine :D And I made solution, that i will start engine with intake system and WBO, because i have some fears about safety of trying to start engine without intake system and WBO...
Is innovate LC-2 good choice for my project?

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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by mck1117 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:41 pm

I've heard not great things about Innovate's reliability. A few of us here have had good luck with AEM's wideband O2 sensors and gauges. They make both standalone controllers (no gauge) and integrated gauge+controllers. The gauges include an analog output that you can wire to the ECU so it knows the AFR too.

I'd start the engine without a wideband (which I've done before), but you probably need an intake...

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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by Kavabanga » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:44 pm

Thank you for your advice about WBO. I asked some questions my acquaintances, who understand in WBO and already ordered Innovate LC-2. How long and properly it will work, i`ll know later :D
I really fear "kill" my engine and i will wait Innovate and, while it delivering by post, i`ll make carbon intake system ;)

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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by russian » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:18 pm

mobyfab wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:31 pm
I have the full manuals/schematics if needed.
is that because... you maybe have a 2007 cbr600rr yourself?!
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by russian » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:39 pm

38770-N1A-D11 would be a tuneable OEM Honda part for this engine?
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Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Post by mobyfab » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:38 pm

russian wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:18 pm
mobyfab wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:31 pm
I have the full manuals/schematics if needed.
is that because... you maybe have a 2007 cbr600rr yourself?!
Yes ;)
russian wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:39 pm
38770-N1A-D11 would be a tuneable OEM Honda part for this engine?
Yes

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