ECU with redundance for Aircraft use

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
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jbiplane
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ECU with redundance for Aircraft use

Post by jbiplane » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:23 pm

Is it possible to use on one engine 2 Ecu? If one fault second understand and continue correct operation?
What correct logic should be then? May be already discussed issue?
Or in this case better use e-carburetor which will go to carb "bypass" mode if electronics fault.

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Re: ECU with redundance for Aircraft use

Post by russian » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:28 pm

i am not aware of any aviation plans or discussions. i have no idea what faults should be handled how, i would recommended against flying on rusEfi.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

mck1117
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Re: ECU with redundance for Aircraft use

Post by mck1117 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:36 pm

Preface: I hold a US Private Pilots License and hang out with a bunch of aerospace engineers, so I'm familiar with how the aerospace world works with respect to engineering and manufacturing.
jbiplane wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:23 pm
Is it possible to use on one engine 2 Ecu? If one fault second understand and continue correct operation?
It's possible, yes. For example, Diamond aircraft with Austro Diesel engines use a pair of redundant ECUs that can take over from one another if one fails.
jbiplane wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:23 pm
What correct logic should be then? May be already discussed issue?
This problem (or any other high-reliability functionality) is one that is not under the purview of the rusEfi project. As stated on the wiki, Rusefi is intended for off-road land vehicles. The liability implications of supporting (or even just helping with) the use of rusEfi for aviation use are nearly infinite in magnitude. Ever wonder why certified airplanes are so friggin expensive? It's because of the mountain of work that goes in to certifying that every single part, process, line of code, and system on the plane will be manufactured, behave, and fail as intended, all the way down the supply chain.

We don't have the time, resources, money, or expertise to build something that I would be confident using in an aviation application.

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Re: ECU with redundance for Aircraft use

Post by jbiplane » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:27 am

mck1117 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:36 pm
We don't have the time, resources, money, or expertise to build something that I would be confident using in an aviation application.
At moment for experimental aircraft mostly used
http://www.sdsefi.com/
and few similar solution without any redundance. Just bunch of board which serve each one or few cylinders.
The only redundance they have is use 2 fuel pump in parallel.

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Re: ECU with redundance for Aircraft use

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:24 am

At a local fly-in we have one fellow that for years has showed up with is home built plane. The tubes are from HomeDepot or similar pipe store, the engines are horizontal lawn mower motors, which he has mounted vertically. The fabric that covers the tubes and makes the wings is literally a blue tarp from HomeDepot.

Single pilot planes are much different than multi-passenger planes. As well experimental air craft is much different than private air craft. Private is specifically designed as for hire, while experimental is not-for-hire. This is an important difference, and it is one reason why the rules are so different. It is significantly harder to transport materials or passengers under the experimental air craft category. If you lawn dart it and kill yourself, that's not governments job to regulate. If you hit someone else with a plane, train or automobile, that's when the government get's involved.

I agree that rusEFI does not uphold the stuff you typically desire for aviation. If you try this, it's at your own risk. As well if you make something, I would not recommend selling it to other people. There is a difference when you do something to yourself, vs when you do it to someone else.

I wonder what features would drive an aviation application to be EFI instead of carb? Do you expect a lower MTBF by using multiple / redundant components? Do you expect a more complicated system with more moving parts to be to be lower cost? Do you expect better fuel efficiency for a long flight? What features are you after?
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)

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Re: ECU with redundance for Aircraft use

Post by jbiplane » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:00 pm

kb1gtt wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:24 am
What features are you after?
The most important is substitution of membrane carb for paramotor and 115kg planes.
Problems to be solved
1. Most users fly rarelly. When they trying to start engine after break or big themperature change motor dont start. The different reasons, says membrane destroyed of age, aged oil glued all passages carb or... Sometimes cold engine start and very difficust start again hot engine.

2. The reason of many accidents is wrong ratio petrol to air. Sometimes few seconds and pistons melted out.

3. Season or scheduled regulation. You have readjust carb screws each few hours or when weather changes.

4. Fuel consumption. With EFI at least 20% savings regularly.

5. Ignition advance via rpm make engine working very smooth. Most carb engines have constant advance +16.
Much better have something like about +8 during start and iddle, about 28 at 4500...7500 rpm, and 15 at 12000

Air model engines use very simple approach - fuel consumption depends only of engine rpm. MAP and air themperature sensor regulate only fuel pressure. This way very ancient PICs work perfectly. But novadays noone know how reprogram it.

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