[help needed] 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

What engine are you torturing? Is it inside some car?
Post Reply
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 9846
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:27 am

Driver side front wheel bearing or axle is not well, looks like sunroof has leaked, most lights on the dash are on - but @abricosvw says it sounds healthy so we start GDI project :)

2006 2.0T VAG engine not sure what is the code.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi_docume ... enPassatB6

Attachments
2006_passat.jpg
2006_passat.jpg (591.93 KiB) Viewed 852 times
dash.jpg
dash.jpg (42.13 KiB) Viewed 852 times
GDI_first_step.jpg
GDI_first_step.jpg (499.62 KiB) Viewed 852 times
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3524
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA
Contact:

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:11 am

Horizontal mounted, that looks just like my A3. Let me know how easy / hard it is to get to the ECU.
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)

960
contributor
contributor
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:22 am
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by 960 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:56 pm

kb1gtt wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:11 am
Horizontal mounted, that looks just like my A3. Let me know how easy / hard it is to get to the ECU.
I can get you that info if you have more info what car it is

At Audi it's usually found here:

(A3 2007)
ElsaWin_L07XLpVgxO.png
ElsaWin_L07XLpVgxO.png (168.07 KiB) Viewed 762 times

User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3524
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA
Contact:

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:27 am

Both A3 and A4 are under the windshield wipers. Quit hard to reach for me. The wiper bars don't want to remove, as well I expect the harness pigtail is to short to allow me to relocate it. If I spend a couple hours digging it out from under the wipers, I'll have to spend a couple hours putting it right back where I got it from. It would be good if I had an extension cable or similar which allowed it to be relocated to a more easily accessible location. I need to drive this as it's my daily driver.
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)

960
contributor
contributor
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:22 am
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by 960 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:43 am

You only need these :-)

Genuine-VAG-1598-39-VW-AUDI-Specialist-tools-Control-Unit-tester-RRP-950

VAG-1598-42-Prufkabel-Spezialwerkzeug



XWcS8QDPJY.png
XWcS8QDPJY.png (286.61 KiB) Viewed 703 times

User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 9846
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB » Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:09 am

Grabbed some parts at a junk yard, @abricosvw will hopefully make a flow test rig. The plan is to use not-so-high fuel pressure to begin with, I assume these would still spray something ?

For injector control first we will attempt to use BMW 7506280 GDI driver box - see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1564

Next step should be KIT33816FRDMEVM MC33816 Development Board - sample code seem to be doing exactly the injector control we need, I just need to get myself to spend $264.57.

Once things work on the development board we can move to our own MC33816 board see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1337&p=35142

Random bosch injector datasheet https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wiki/ ... EV_5.2.pdf Maybe we need more or less similar 65-90v @ 13.2A for 500us followed by 12v@~3A for the rest of the pulse? Maybe pin 1 is also positive and pin 2 is also GND for us?
Attachments
future_flow_bench.jpg
future_flow_bench.jpg (413.9 KiB) Viewed 296 times
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3524
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA
Contact:

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 am

With 50 PSI pressure you can open and close with just 12v. You need the boost voltage when you have high pressure. Do you have a plan for generating high pressure?
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)

User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 9846
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB » Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:58 pm

kb1gtt wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 am
You need the boost voltage when you have high pressure. Do you have a plan for generating high pressure?
Chief mechanic says he plans to use electric ABS brakes pump.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

Abricos
contributor
contributor
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:32 am

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by Abricos » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:58 pm

New Bitmap Image.bmp
New Bitmap Image.bmp (590.64 KiB) Viewed 258 times
New Bitmap Image (2).bmp
New Bitmap Image (2).bmp (2.52 MiB) Viewed 258 times

mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:16 pm

kb1gtt wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 am
With 50 PSI pressure you can open and close with just 12v. You need the boost voltage when you have high pressure. Do you have a plan for generating high pressure?
You don't need the high voltage to open the injector, just to open it quickly. With DI you're in a bit of a rush to get your injection over with, so you can't wait for a 0.5ms+ opening time. Opening time on these injectors is around 100us when using the boost + peak + hold scheme. However, you do need a current limited driver or else you'll burn out the injector. They have a DC resistance of around an ohm, so at 12v they'll be dissipating around 150 watts, which would quickly melt things.
russian wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:09 am
The plan is to use not-so-high fuel pressure to begin with, I assume these would still spray something ?
Yes - they will still spray something. I had the high pressure pump on my Focus fail, so it was running exclusively off of the low pressure (~80psi, in fuel tank) electric pump. The car didn't like starting and was stuck in limp mode, but still ran pretty much fine.

Since the flow thru an orifice (or group of orifices, in this case) is proportional to the square root of the pressure, you really only need to measure flow at one known pressure, can can extrapolate to a wide pressure range easily.
russian wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:09 am
For injector control first we will attempt...
I'd recommend trying to start the car first without the high pressure system at all, simply using the in-tank pump. The HP pump has check valves in it such that the low pressure pump will pressurize the rail, which means its function isn't strictly necessary to run the engine. My car will actually let me (albeit with a check engine light) unplug the HP pump while the engine is running without much issue. You won't be able to make more than maybe 100 horsepower, but that's enough to putter around a little bit and convince ourselves that the injector drivers work.

mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:27 pm

russian wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:09 am
Random bosch injector datasheet https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wiki/ ... EV_5.2.pdf Maybe we need more or less similar 65-90v @ 13.2A for 500us followed by 12v@~3A for the rest of the pulse? Maybe pin 1 is also positive and pin 2 is also GND for us?
I'll make a separate post about the injector control specifically, but you're pretty close to what those specs mean, but not quite.

The datasheet actually describes three phases:

1) Boost: Apply 65 volts until the current reaches 13.2 amps, which should take 480us. This also gives us enough information to compute the total inductance of the injector and the wiring, which is around 2.3mH according to Bosch (which sounds like the correct order of magnitude for an injector and a few meters of wire).
2) Peak (called pick-up in the datasheet): Closed loop switch on/off to maintain 9.4 amps for the next 704us
3) Hold: Closed loop switch on/off to maintain 3.7 amps for as long as you need until the injection event is over.

It's possible to measure what the VW-provided ECU is doing injector-drive wise, but likely not necesary. That datasheet is for the same HDEV 5.x injectors found both in my Focus and your VW, so they're probably close enough (if not exactly correct).

Post Reply