BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
Post Reply
marc426
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 9:14 pm
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by marc426 »

Hi guys,

I'm trying to see a bit clearer in my carb to EFI conversion on a bmw M10 engine.

So far I have :
  • L-jetronic intake manifold complete with injectors, fuel rail and pressure regulator.
  • M50 throttle body along with its TPS and connector (3P bosch junior timer type)
  • MAP / IAT sensor (Bosch 0 281 002 845) with its connector (newer 4P Bosch type) but not its contacts which remain to be found
  • original CLT sensor
  • 4 outputs ignition coil (Bosch 0 221 503 487)
What I'm missing / my questions :
  • Does anyone know the reference of the proper connector for my coil? It is a 3pins connector, it's rectangular with rounded ends on 3 corners and sharp on one corner.
  • Can I drive the coil directly from the mini rusefi?
    I think I saw some of you guys running an external ignition IGBT so I'd say no but I also thought the tl888 chip was able to drive coils and had the proper drivers... Where am I wrong?
  • My current setup has no idle control implemented. What would you guys recommend? I don't think I have any other (easy) option than go with an Idle Control Valve since a stepper motor would need some modifications on the TPS.
    Can I go with any ICV from a similar displacement engine? Do you have any reference?
Thanks for the help!

Marc

mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by mck1117 »

marc426 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:45 pm
So far I have :
  • L-jetronic intake manifold complete with injectors, fuel rail and pressure regulator.
  • M50 throttle body along with its TPS and connector (3P bosch junior timer type)
  • MAP / IAT sensor (Bosch 0 281 002 845) with its connector (newer 4P Bosch type) but not its contacts which remain to be found
  • original CLT sensor
  • 4 outputs ignition coil (Bosch 0 221 503 487)
Sounds like a solid start. That hardware should all work ok. One question: what style CLT sensor is it? Does it have two pins (isolated from the sensor body), or only one (grounded thru the cylinder head)? The latter style may have noise and accuracy issues (really only good enough for a gauge)

I don't know the answers to all of your questions, but I can help with the second and third:
marc426 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:45 pm
  • Can I drive the coil directly from the mini rusefi?
    I think I saw some of you guys running an external ignition IGBT so I'd say no but I also thought the tl888 chip was able to drive coils and had the proper drivers... Where am I wrong?
microRusEfi can only drive smart coils, or coils with an external ignitor. I know several of our users have had good luck with Bosch external ignitors.
marc426 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:45 pm
  • My current setup has no idle control implemented. What would you guys recommend? I don't think I have any other (easy) option than go with an Idle Control Valve since a stepper motor would need some modifications on the TPS.
    Can I go with any ICV from a similar displacement engine? Do you have any reference?
Idle air control isn't strictly necessary. My race car doesn't have one, and it starts/idles just fine when cold or hot. It's not perfect, but it works well enough.

rusEfi supports idle spark control, where the ignition timing is varied to maintain idle speed, in addition to a table that lets you increase the ignition timing when the engine is cold.

mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by mck1117 »

mck1117 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:43 pm
One question: what style CLT sensor is it? Does it have two pins (isolated from the sensor body), or only one (grounded thru the cylinder head)? The latter style may have noise and accuracy issues (really only good enough for a gauge)
after a quick search: it looks like the stock m10 sensor might be an 0 280 130 026 (or at least it fits in the stock hole?), which is the exact sensor I have in my Volvo running on rusEfi!

marc426
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 9:14 pm
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by marc426 »

Hi mck1117.

Thanks for the answers.
after a quick search: it looks like the stock m10 sensor might be an 0 280 130 026 (or at least it fits in the stock hole?), which is the exact sensor I have in my Volvo running on rusEfi!
Yes, that's the one! Did you have to make a calibration table for it ? In which case, I'd be interested in it :)
  • Duly noted about ignition coil needing to be driven. I'm gonna try with a Bosch module but their connector are kinda hard to source / expensive.
  • And about idle, I'll try first without a control valve then.
Thanks!

mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by mck1117 »

marc426 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:44 am
Yes, that's the one! Did you have to make a calibration table for it ? In which case, I'd be interested in it :)
That sensor is actually also sold under Bosch Motorsport, so they publish the datasheet here: http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/downloads/Raceparts/Resources/pdf/Data%20Sheet_70101387_Temperature_Sensor_NTC_M12.pdf

I think I configured it with the points from 10/50/90 degrees C or something like that.

porelmundo
contributor
contributor
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:15 am

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by porelmundo »

Can I drive the coil directly from the mini rusefi?
I think I saw some of you guys running an external ignition IGBT so I'd say no but I also thought the tl888 chip was able to drive coils and had the proper drivers... Where am I wrong?
You can easily use a Bosch 2 channel ignitor with the setup and you will be fine.
Bosch 0227100200

marc426
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 9:14 pm
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by marc426 »

Hi Porelmundo,

I found relevant informations for a similar reference : 0 227 100 211
Datasheet is here : http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/downloads/Raceparts/en-GB/50703755113535243.html#/Tabs=50706187/

They specify a "driving-stage" (a transistor switching 5V) for non current-driving ECUs.
I'm not sure of how the microrusefi outputs are cabled... I assume the STM32 can sink 10-20mA per pin which should be ok for direct connection to the module, right?

marc426
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 9:14 pm
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by marc426 »

Ok, I didn't have in mind the MIC4427 drivers on the ignition outputs.

Looks perfect to drive the ignition modules then!! :)

marc426
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 9:14 pm
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by marc426 »

Ok, nevertheless I don't understand why the TLE888 is not used via it's IGN1-4 input as a power stage?

Is it a deliberate move to keep EMI off-board?

User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 10360
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by AndreyB »

marc426 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:26 pm
Ok, nevertheless I don't understand why the TLE888 is not used via it's IGN1-4 input as a power stage?
historical reasons. Latest MRE 0.5.0 could be adjusted to use TLE8888 IGN1-4
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

marc426
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 9:14 pm
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by marc426 »

historical reasons. Latest MRE 0.5.0 could be adjusted to use TLE8888 IGN1-4
Great stuff!
How can I tell which MRE version I have?

From the schematic, I'm guessing there's some PCB rework to be done? Or can the output be controlled via SPI?

Would there be a suitable firmware available ?

User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 10360
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by AndreyB »

You would have to find PCB version on the PCB. While PCB now allows this I am not sure if software would need to be changed or not and at this point I do not plan to investigate this :(
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

OrchardPerformance
contributor
contributor
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 pm
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by OrchardPerformance »

The similar VW/Bosch 4 cylinder module is cheap and has readily available amp connectors.
I think I paid about £35 for 2 modules and £15 for two sets of connectors for them (to run an M20 with M50 COPs).

PN is 4D0905351 and plugs can be found on ebay

User avatar
Dron_Gus
donator
donator
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:11 pm
Location: S-Pb

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by Dron_Gus »

On pre 0.5.0 TLE8888's ignition outputs are available on test points. But no gpios routed to TLE8888 ignition inputs. As far as I understand datasheet ignition outputs can not be driven over spi only. But this is not 146%.

OrchardPerformance
contributor
contributor
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 pm
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes

Re: BMW M10 carb to EFI setup

Post by OrchardPerformance »

The M10 coolant sensor is the same as the M20 one.

Most common BMW (and Bosch in general) sensor curves are in the attachment.
The curves were carefully measured using an insulated 3d printer heat bed to get precise temperatures.
Attachments
M5x temp sensors.xlsx
(25.56 KiB) Downloaded 2 times

Post Reply