[info] Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:26 am

Do we expect 3D viewer in KiCad to show cool 3D images of the assembled board? Does not happen for me.

By the was LCD screen stands on M3*12+6mm standoffs with M3*5+6mm used as bolts to attach the LCD to the standoffs - now documented at https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... LCD_screen
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:40 am

From the KICAD launcher, or under pcbnew then --> preferences --> configure paths, you need to update the path.
Capture.PNG
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Also if you want stepup to work with FreeCad, you need to updated C:\Users\Vista_64_D630\ksu-config.ini or where ever you have ksu-config.ini such that it reads similar to this.
[prefix3D]
;; put here your KISYS3DMOD path or 3D model prefix path or 3D Alias
;; only TWO prefixs are allowed; MUST finish with slash or backslash
prefix3D_1 = C:\your_location\rusefi_lib\
prefix3D_2 = C:\Program Files\KiCad\share\kicad\modules\packages3d\

Please note that the proper way for the links is for KICAD to NOT have the trailing \, while ksu-config.ini does have the trailing \.

This path thing is blah. I kind of wish they allowed for a $[projectlocation] path variable, but they did not, so I had to create one.

After the path garbage, then it looks like you need to merge some of the 3D models, as some models come in wrong.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:20 am

The fellow who made the StepUp macro for FreeCad has done great things. That person is the one who allows us to export files that can be used by standard CAD systems like OnShape. Big thumbs up for maui who has created StepUp.

Also the 3D in OnShape is better than the KICAD 3D, yet slower to view. Notice it includes the discovery and the fuse. However OnShape only allows one color per 3D object, so it's great for the physical models, not so good for graphics.
https://cad.onshape.com/documents/e3886 ... 56c530cb96

The 3D in FreeCad is the best graphics, as that allows painting a parts faces with different colors.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:40 am

Hmmmm, something went wrong with KICAD 3D on the ECU harness connector and the stepper board. I'll have to look at that closer this evening. I'm not sure why that's being a problem. The StepUp 3D is fine, so it's most likely a problem with the WRL files.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:53 am

Rumble groan moan. It appears the path variable is not a project parameter. So you likely have to create it. As well when ever you change projects you need to remember to change it. It does not change just because you opened a different project. I just got snagged with that as I changed it to go inspect @'s copy of the files, then I found the same issue in my files. However it turns out that problem is that $[RUSLIB] path variable. It has to point to the proper file location, and you have to change it on a per file open basis. It's a pain, but that's how KICAD expects you to do it. Blah.

The big thing is that my files appear to be proper. The official repo will be proper once @gets to sync the 3D files.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:37 am

I know we do not have much space there but maybe at least a few labels for reference?
172) At least some connector silkscreen 1A-3Z see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=507#p29006
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by mzk » Wed May 09, 2018 6:38 am

kb1gtt wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:53 am
Rumble groan moan. It appears the path variable is not a project parameter. So you likely have to create it. As well when ever you change projects you need to remember to change it. It does not change just because you opened a different project. I just got snagged with that as I changed it to go inspect @'s copy of the files, then I found the same issue in my files. However it turns out that problem is that $[RUSLIB] path variable. It has to point to the proper file location, and you have to change it on a per file open basis. It's a pain, but that's how KICAD expects you to do it. Blah.

The big thing is that my files appear to be proper. The official repo will be proper once @gets to sync the 3D files.
I have two questions:

1. I added the RUSLIB path to the project paths and also to the system variables (Environment variables). I solved some problems in the past with KISYS3DMOD to the environment variables. However I still see only some buttons, the power supply inductors and some pin headers. May you give me some directions?

EDIT: It seems that the 3d models were added later to ruslib, also some modifications were made to the Frankenso KiCad project. With the latest Frankenso release it works well. I cloned it from github.

2. What's the order of soldering the different parts of the board? It is very big and I would like to skip to the least amount of components for 1st try.

I started with the power supply (PWR_buck_12V_switcher). Probably next is the MCU (stm32f407_board)...

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Wed May 09, 2018 10:21 am

Hmmm, I see the repo uses the wrong a4988 stepper driver model. I'll get after @ to merge the newer one of that file.

Also the repo is getting sizable, so to help keep the size down some files were zip compressed. To get the harness connector you need to un-zip c-0176122-06-f-3d.7z. Also to get the discovery connector you need to un-zip Con_2x25.7z.

I would suggest the power supply first, or at least leave out W23. The GND plane on pin 3 of U1001 makes it difficult to get a good connection on that point. When that happens the 5V goes to 12V. So we suggest leaving out W23 to prevent damage to 5V components. Once you know you have a good 5V, then install W23 to power the 5V components.

I would suggest avoiding the STM32 components, and install the purchased discovery board instead. The purchased board costs almost the same as the individual components.

About the sequence of installing components, that really depends on your manufacturing capabilities. The optimal process will vary based on what equipment you have. For example, those with solder paste stencils and hot air ovens, will place all components, then put it in the oven. As well hot air pen's, or soldering irons will change how you want to install components. We can give you the BOM, and we can make some suggestions like the W23 jumper. However the sequence of manufacturing is left up to the manufacture to decide. If you are doing your own thing, it's common you will want to do this section by section, such that you install the injector channels, then validate them, then install something else like the LCD and validate it. Building in sections like this helps diagnose a problem when you have a problem.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by mzk » Wed May 09, 2018 2:27 pm

Exactly this is my idea. Section by section. The power supply is already soldered. I'm thinking to skip the LCD and the joystick and to use the bluetooth. I'm not aware of the capabilities of the MCU for w/less conf/debug.

May I suggest to put a little more space between U1001 and P604?
u1001-p604.jpg
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Fri May 11, 2018 12:18 am

A typical set of cheap 0805 parts on eBay has the following values 1 pF

3.3 pF

4.7 pF

6.8 pF

8.2 pF

10 pF

12 pF

15 pF

22 pF

33 pF

47 pF

68 pF

100 pF

150 pF

200 pF

220 pF

330 pF

390 pF

470 pF

560 pF

680 pF

1 nF

1.5 nF

2.2 nF

3.3 nF

3.9 nF

4.7 nF

5.6 nF

6.8 nF

8.2 nF

10 nF

15 nF

22 nF

33 nF

47 nF

56 nF

68 nF

82 nF

100 nF

1 uF


Which is most appropriate for C19 C354 C358 C472 C501, 5.47uF, SM0805 if a substitution is possible for these?
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by Lyonz » Fri May 11, 2018 2:20 am

russian wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:18 am
A typical set of cheap 0805 parts on eBay has the following values 1 pF

3.3 pF

4.7 pF

6.8 pF

8.2 pF

10 pF

12 pF

15 pF

22 pF

33 pF

47 pF

68 pF

100 pF

150 pF

200 pF

220 pF

330 pF

390 pF

470 pF

560 pF

680 pF

1 nF

1.5 nF

2.2 nF

3.3 nF

3.9 nF

4.7 nF

5.6 nF

6.8 nF

8.2 nF

10 nF

15 nF

22 nF

33 nF

47 nF

56 nF

68 nF

82 nF

100 nF

1 uF


Which is most appropriate for C19 C354 C358 C472 C501, 5.47uF, SM0805 if a substitution is possible for these?
I will try this one : https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Condensateurs-C ... 2749.l2649
But it's in 16v.

One other problem, it's for the 2 capacitors for knock module
C166 C167 ,2,24pF,SM0805,,johnson,251R15S240JV4E,DIGI,712-1383-1-ND
And in the frankenso scheme, the oscillator is mounted with C166, C167, X161 & R77. With the formula Rs = 1 / (2piFC2).
Except that there is no 24pF capacitor in the kit, but 22pF.
Can I just put the 22pF and R177 of 820ohms, or put 910ohms (1 / (2 * pi * 8Mhz * 22pF)) = 904.28ohms?
I ordered 24pF capacitors and 910ohms resistors in case.

For R403 R406 R407 R410 R411 R414 R415 R418 R419 R422 R423 R426 R617 R619 R621 R623 R625 R627 R629 R631 ,20,20R,SM0805,,Panasonic,ECG ERJ-6ENF20R0V,DIGI,ERJ-6ENF20R0V,,
There is no 20ohms but 22ohms
I mounted the 22ohms directly. I hope it'll be ok

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by gptech2444 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:22 am

Hi guys,

This is quite frustrating, I've just read through this thread and searched but I can't find any clear, concise information on what are the outputs and what are the inputs.

Now I can see that the 12 low outputs are for the injectors, but what do I use for the coils, the relays, tacho outputs?
What control do I have over assigning the outputs and inputs?

Looking through the miata examples there is a lot of conflicting information adding to the confusion.

What USB connector do I use? There are 3 of them.

Is there any chance a wiki could be made that simply shows what connections you need to make for a 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder installation?

And a basic run through with connecting your laptop and assigning outputs and inputs?

I'm installing this on a W124 300e mercedes, sequential, wasted spark. Using a 35 pin molex connector.

I enjoy a challenge and will work this out but why does it need to be this difficult to source this information?

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:48 am

Have you found the wiki? If not you may find this page helpful.
https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... enso_board

Our documentation is weak. We have limited resources, and developing core features is a slow process. We would be quite happy with a better wiki, and dare I say, some youtube or https://vimeo.com/ video's. However it's a balance between developing features, using those features, and documenting the features. If you make wiki page contributions, video's, etc, we would be happy to put them out there for others to find and use. I'm working on project(s) 10 minutes at a time, which puts the documentation at a lower priority. You might find this odd, but as the primary developer of the Frankenso hardware, I don't have anything running rusEFI. I'm jealous of @, as he has at least made the jump from developing rusEFI to using rusEFI. I've been developing this each night after the family goes to bed, then someone else builds it and installs it. I have an R0.2 board, which briefly ran a V8. However for the truck to be useful, it needs a bunch of transmission control stuff, and allot less rust. The truck does not hold a state inspection anymore.

Let me know if there is something I can do to help. I suspect the wiki will provide some core stuff like schematics and some information. However I would agree the documentation is weak, and less than clear to new comers.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by gptech2444 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:42 am

I don't want to come across as negative I think this is a great project but there needs to be better explanation of the basics.
I've read through the wiki and I've printed out the schematic.

The main information I'm after is what outputs can I use for the ignition coils, tacho, relays, etc.

what's the difference between the AN outputs and the HL outputs?

Does it need a constant 12v to W1?

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by Lyonz » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:28 pm

Hello Hello
I too have taken the step and buy Frankenso kit .. But I admit that I should have read more in detail the wiki.
The problem, it is already raised. And with the difficulties I encountered for construction, I can say that it is also the best way to understand a little operation.
I used a lot of documents including: https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... by-ref.csv
And the electrical diagram.
By cons, I agree, it's still a great project with still a lot of things to do

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:08 pm

gptech2444 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:42 am
The main information I'm after is what outputs can I use for the ignition coils, tacho, relays, etc.
This depends on what you are connecting to. Typically you would use the Hi/Lo driver. That driver will push high and pull low. The high level can be 5V, 12V or floating depending on how P604 etc are configured. Ignition requires an external igniter and how this is wired depends on what external igniter is being used. Same for tach, seems every OEM has a different method of wiring it. Frankenso is very flexible, such that it can technically be used on almost any application, however it also makes the documentation a daunting task, as there are millions of different configurations. Most configurations could be covered with 4 or 5 different examples. It would be great if we could get like 4 or 5 different examples documented. I once tried something with GIMP, see picture noted here.
https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... ankenstein

Also Prometheus has a good start at documentation for that hardware. See below link.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1215
what's the difference between the AN outputs and the HL outputs?
There are AN inputs, those are ANalog inputs, like TPS, IAT, etc. The HL outputs are High Low outputs. Those will drive to a high voltage or a low voltage. The injectors will only pull low, and are commonly called low side driver. The HL driver is both a high side driver, as well as a low side drive.
Does it need a constant 12v to W1?
W1 is not connected to anything. There is a via which allows a wire to be attached, AKA if something is connected on that pin, you can wire it to anything you want. Or you can use that W1 block to change the pin out. This connector is used on many different OEM engines, and we change the pin out by installing small jumper wires. Most of the time the pin out is OK, so we just install 0 ohm resistors.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:16 pm

Lyonz wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:28 pm
Frankenso kit
The kit is much harder than an assembled board. I think out of the 41 engines that we know about, only 1 or 2 have used the kit. The rest have been assembled boards. I know several times @ has encouraged people to get the assembled boards. That small china fee is worth it, as it will take you hours to populated, then hours to validate. This is even harder for us to document, as everyone has different manufacturing capabilities, and that changes how you would populate and validate the boards. Providing a BOM, schematic and pictures of an assembled board is about all we can offer for kits. If someone can document it, we are willing to help, but it's not feasible for @ or myself to generate a detailed assembly instruction.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:12 pm

On the one hand I've added few sentences to the wiki
Low-side drivers are used for most (all?) high-Z injectors and relays.

High-side could be set to drive logic leven (not high energy) +5v or +12v. Used for some coils like GM LS or Miata. Also used to drive Miata tachometer. Can not be used to drive 95 Neon coils since those need high energy drivers.
Also added another warning to https://www.tindie.com/products/russian ... o-diy-kit/
WARNING! Please be aware that assembly instructions are very minimal - just the bill of material and complete schematics. Please make sure that you are satisfied with the level of documentation in advance! WARNING!
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by gptech2444 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:27 am

Ok, cool.

How do we determine how the inputs and outputs are set? Is this all done through tunerstudio?

A youtube of how this is done would be great time saver.
edit;4-6-18
Ok, not so cool. I just hooked up tunerstudio. And this is diabolical.
rusefi pinout.PNG
rusefi pinout.PNG (118.01 KiB) Viewed 3352 times
Let's take injector 1 for example. It uses PB7, so we have to look at the schematic to get where PB7 goes, it's inj-12, which is low-1a-12, then we have to look at the pin out, which looks like it lines up with W63 or is it W64?

Next one is battery voltage, I have 13.1v going into it from the PS, but tunerstudio says it's 11.7v.
So the battery voltage doesn't get it's voltage from the main input?
I don't have the option for CAM speed trigger input, this I need. It's an option on speeduino and megasquirt.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by ZHoob2004 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:35 pm

The pin assignments are a bit daunting at first, but you just need to take it a step at a time. The "Cam speed trigger input" is called "Secondary Channel" on the leftmost column. Forget about the All pins menu for now and use the individual settings menus, part of the documentation is buried there and it's a little easier to piece together what everything is for.

Because of the universal nature of this project, pin labels can't really get any more specific than the pin assignments on the discovery board. I found it helpful to make a chart associating discovery pins with their functions (low side 1-12, analog 1-12, hilo 1-8, etc), then when I had my connector pinout determined (I wired for a Honda oem layout), I added a column for those assignments.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:22 pm

gptech2444 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:27 am

Let's take injector 1 for example. It uses PB7, so we have to look at the schematic to get where PB7 goes, it's inj-12, which is low-1a-12, then we have to look at the pin out, which looks like it lines up with W63 or is it W64?

Next one is battery voltage, I have 13.1v going into it from the PS, but tunerstudio says it's 11.7v.
I am finding injectors using https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... ult_Pinout without using the schematics. You have a point that this image could be improved by adding Wxx designations right into the https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... pinout.xcf image using GIMP editor. Would you be available to improve that https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... pinout.xcf GIMP image and post your improved version?

As for battery voltage, you need to calibrate - the battery dividor depends on what resistors you've used.

I believe that looking at "all pins" is not the most efficient way, please look at the feature-specific menues.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:00 pm

battery dividor depends on what resistors you've used.
Also remember the resistors have a tolerance. The software calibration will remove most of the resistor tolerance's.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by gptech2444 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:55 pm

russian wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:22 pm
gptech2444 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:27 am

Let's take injector 1 for example. It uses PB7, so we have to look at the schematic to get where PB7 goes, it's inj-12, which is low-1a-12, then we have to look at the pin out, which looks like it lines up with W63 or is it W64?

Next one is battery voltage, I have 13.1v going into it from the PS, but tunerstudio says it's 11.7v.
I am finding injectors using https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... ult_Pinout without using the schematics. You have a point that this image could be improved by adding Wxx designations right into the https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... pinout.xcf image using GIMP editor. Would you be available to improve that https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... pinout.xcf GIMP image and post your improved version?

As for battery voltage, you need to calibrate - the battery dividor depends on what resistors you've used.

I believe that looking at "all pins" is not the most efficient way, please look at the feature-specific menues.
Sorry you've lost me here, I bought the ecu ready to run from you. I haven't seen any mention of having to adjust the voltage measurement calibration.
But I see that the voltage input is selectable. vBatt ADC input "PC4"

I realise that the rusefi works on different shields but if Frankenso is going to be the main shield then I think it would it be best to put "PB7=W64" on the outputs in tunerstudio.
Also, where do I select the VVT output, I can't see it in the list?
Last edited by gptech2444 on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by gptech2444 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:12 pm

ZHoob2004 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:35 pm
The pin assignments are a bit daunting at first, but you just need to take it a step at a time. The "Cam speed trigger input" is called "Secondary Channel" on the leftmost column. Forget about the All pins menu for now and use the individual settings menus, part of the documentation is buried there and it's a little easier to piece together what everything is for.

Because of the universal nature of this project, pin labels can't really get any more specific than the pin assignments on the discovery board. I found it helpful to make a chart associating discovery pins with their functions (low side 1-12, analog 1-12, hilo 1-8, etc), then when I had my connector pinout determined (I wired for a Honda oem layout), I added a column for those assignments.
I'm only using a CAM sensor input, no CRANK sensor. So if I leave primary input as NONE then will it work?

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:24 pm

Yes good pojnt i can make a version of project template for frankenso.

Primary is never none, just use cam as primary and set cam mode.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by ZHoob2004 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:38 pm

So what you have is a 36-1 wheel turning at half speed for your crank primary trigger. (I know it's connected to your cam, but it's still timed against the crank timing. Cam input is more for vvt and TDC sensing.)

@russian, can rusefi get crank timing if it doesn't see a missing tooth every crank rotation? I can't really call this situation equivalent to an 18-1 crank trigger, since it will only get a missing tooth every 36 teeth.
Last edited by ZHoob2004 on Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by gptech2444 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:57 pm

russian wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:24 pm
Yes good pojnt i can make a version of project template for frankenso.

Primary is never none, just use cam as primary and set cam mode.
How will this work, as the input is expecting the pattern at crank speed. I need sequential injection. And 36-1 at cam speed with no crank trigger gives you that in other ecu's, but if the ecu doesn't know the input is at cam speed then how can it work?

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:57 pm

You just set it as 36-1 cam sensor, no tricks needed here
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by gptech2444 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:02 pm

russian wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:57 pm
You just set it as 36-1 cam sensor, no tricks needed here
Ok,I needed to know that for sure before I went ahead with wiring it in as this would stop me dead.

Also, I can't see the VVT output pin, and how do I calibrate the Voltage?

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 pm

gptech2444 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:02 pm
russian wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:57 pm
You just set it as 36-1 cam sensor, no tricks needed here
Ok,I needed to know that for sure before I went ahead with wiring it in as this would stop me dead.

Also, I can't see the VVT output pin, and how do I calibrate the Voltage?
To calibrate VBatt you adjust battery divider so that VBatt matches your multimeter reading https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... attery.png

VVT output means you have VVT sensor and VVT, do you have VVT sensor and VVT? See https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... ftware:VVT
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very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

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