GDI: injector control options

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AndreyB
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GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

MC33816 and PT2000 from NXP have quite different names but we believe those are pretty similar products, both are programmable with a full-blown assembly language.

ST whitepaper on GDI https://www.st.com/resource/en/white_paper/stmicroelectronics_enables_electronic_control_of_the_next_generation_of_gasoline_direct_injection_gdi_engines.pdf mentions L9781 https://www.st.com/en/automotive-analog-and-power/l9781.html which has not been mentioned on this forum so far.
The L9781 is a multi valve pre-driver capable of driving 11 external N-channel logic level MOSFETs, controlling up to 5 inductive loads through peak and hold current control and one DC/DC step-up converter, providing full protection against accidental faults on the external hardware. The load peak and hold current control (together with the diagnosis) is done by the internal configurable Finite State Machines (FSMs) needing only the start of actuation commands from the main microcontroller.
Does anyone have the brains to compare the NXP solution to ST solution? Are there any other options on the marker?
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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

One the one hand looks like L9781 is available for sale in singles but no datasheet? I am only able to find a 10 page dataBRIEF https://www.st.com/resource/en/data_brief/l9781.pdf
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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

http://www.bosch-semiconductors.com/automotive-system-ics/engine-management-systems/cy335/ is the bosch option - again no datasheet? Also no availability? :)
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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

I have a bad feeling for the PT2000, and hope we can find something else.

The safest option would be a Bosch IC.

The option we have most information for are the CJ830/CJ840.

It's the HI-Quad 64 found in MED7, MED9 and MED17

The IC's have different numbers for revisions/years, I have a 2006 MED9 here with number 30469

Its found in all Bosch GDI ECU's from 2000 to at least 2010, so I guess we could gather some more OEM numbers.

We have diagrams, reference design, sample code, SPI commands, maps and all values.

And we know it's working.



Also, please download



It's newer than the last one, more English and cleaned up a lot.

The functions name are

INJDDGDI

If we could find a supplier and datasheet for CY335 would be even better.

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

960 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:13 am
The option we have most information for are the CJ830/CJ840.
Looks like we do not have a datasheet?
CJ830 only available from one place in Poland NOS https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-CJ830KS-CJ830-Automotive-IC-QFP64-BOSCH/263302842429

CJ840 two sellers on eBay
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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

russian wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:10 pm
960 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:13 am
The option we have most information for are the CJ830/CJ840.
Looks like we do not have a datasheet?
CJ830 only available from one place in Poland NOS https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-CJ830KS-CJ830-Automotive-IC-QFP64-BOSCH/263302842429

CJ840 two sellers on eBay
Try searching with the numbers at the IC's

Bosch 30469 are CJ840.
There are more numbers as well

All Bosch GDI IC's between 2000 - around 2010 should be CJ830/40 (They should all be HIQuad64)

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by OrchardPerformance »

If we look at Bosch chips can we be sure of supply? It has been my experience that the chips are available either to OEM clients or on a very patchy aftermarket basis.
That or they can change part numbers seemingly at random making identifying chips a game of whack-a-mole.

This makes DIY build pretty much impossible and opens us up to obsolescence when Bosch just decide to end the production of a chip as their main OEM customer has stopped using them.
Now keeping MRE and Proteus in stock in the UK, PM or slack for details.

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:19 pm
If we look at Bosch chips can we be sure of supply? It has been my experience that the chips are available either to OEM clients or on a very patchy aftermarket basis.
That or they can change part numbers seemingly at random making identifying chips a game of whack-a-mole.

This makes DIY build pretty much impossible and opens us up to obsolescence when Bosch just decide to end the production of a chip as their main OEM customer has stopped using them.
I know it's not a ideal solution.
Bosch IC's have always been a pain.

If we could gather some more part numbers, search would be easier.

What helps, is they did not have any other GDI driver for that long time period.

At the moment it seems to be just the PT2000 available, and I just dont like it.

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

MC33816 is very available, why do you ignore MC33816?

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

MC33816 = MCPT2000

So if I had to choose, it would be the PT2000

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

960 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:51 pm
MC33816 = MCPT2000
These chips are close to each other but also not the same chip at all see https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN5203.pdf
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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

That's what I consider the same.

I see no reason to waste time at the MC33816, as the PT2000 are both newer and better with 6 cylinders.

I am also sure the MC33816 are soon to die out anyway.

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

Has anyone seen a price list for Bosch Motorsport? Wonder how much are "Injection Power Stage HPI 5-M 4C" or "Injection Power Stage HPI 5-M 8C"
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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

Focus tune random pic from Matt - injector flow, injector flow temp comp, and pressure target.
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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

As you dont have Winols, Tunerpro are the second best.

https://www.tunerpro.net/

Then try finding xdf files with as much as possible, or make it yourself.

(I can give you full damos (A2L file) you can find all offsets and math. Tunerpro doesnt work with A2l :-( )

A MED9.1 sample package with damos:
S3_265_PS_2.0T_MED9.1.zip
(4.86 MiB) Downloaded 110 times
(Can be parsed with free software Hexplorer)

Some TFSI example:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9017.0title=

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by Rhinoman »

Some A2L information here: https://www.asam.net/standards/detail/mcd-2-mc/wiki/
that includes a dll for a translator. I have used A2L files previously with CANape and CCP, I may have some more information somewhere, MATLAB has a utility that can extract data but its probably part of one of the add ons targeted at ECUs which are quite expensive.

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

Rhinoman wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
Some A2L information here: https://www.asam.net/standards/detail/mcd-2-mc/wiki/
that includes a dll for a translator. I have used A2L files previously with CANape and CCP, I may have some more information somewhere, MATLAB has a utility that can extract data but its probably part of one of the add ons targeted at ECUs which are quite expensive.

Great info! Thanks :-)

I use them with Winols, but there are not many free/cheap softwares to work with ASAP2 files.
This is the only one I know of:

https://github.com/adhoc2/HEXplorer

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

960 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:41 pm
Rhinoman wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
Some A2L information here: https://www.asam.net/standards/detail/mcd-2-mc/wiki/
that includes a dll for a translator. I have used A2L files previously with CANape and CCP, I may have some more information somewhere, MATLAB has a utility that can extract data but its probably part of one of the add ons targeted at ECUs which are quite expensive.

Great info! Thanks :-)

I use them with Winols, but there are not many free/cheap softwares to work with ASAP2 files.
This is the only one I know of:

https://github.com/adhoc2/HEXplorer
The A2L files are also needed by the car mfgs to map the ecu live with Inca.


It would be great to have Inca and all the ETAS hardware, but it costs a bit too much :-(

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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by AndreyB »

This topic was intended to be about GDI hw options.
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Re: GDI: injector control options

Post by 960 »

russian wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:51 pm
This topic was intended to be about GDI hw options.
ETAS/INCA and any GDI ecu are a solution :-)

Back to topic:

I dont think there are anything else than the MC33PT2000 , and the other NPX Ic's at the market.

The other(and best/cheapest solution)would be to make MCU adapters for MED9, but that would require writing code for the GDI IC..

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