[help needed] 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

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AndreyB
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2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Driver side front wheel bearing or axle is not well, looks like sunroof has leaked, most lights on the dash are on - but @abricos says it sounds healthy so we start GDI project :)

2006 2.0T VAG engine not sure what is the code.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/VolkswagenPassatB6



WVWAK73C16P101397
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt »

Horizontal mounted, that looks just like my A3. Let me know how easy / hard it is to get to the ECU.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by 960 »

kb1gtt wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:11 am
Horizontal mounted, that looks just like my A3. Let me know how easy / hard it is to get to the ECU.
I can get you that info if you have more info what car it is

At Audi it's usually found here:

(A3 2007)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt »

Both A3 and A4 are under the windshield wipers. Quit hard to reach for me. The wiper bars don't want to remove, as well I expect the harness pigtail is to short to allow me to relocate it. If I spend a couple hours digging it out from under the wipers, I'll have to spend a couple hours putting it right back where I got it from. It would be good if I had an extension cable or similar which allowed it to be relocated to a more easily accessible location. I need to drive this as it's my daily driver.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by 960 »

You only need these :-)

Genuine-VAG-1598-39-VW-AUDI-Specialist-tools-Control-Unit-tester-RRP-950

VAG-1598-42-Prufkabel-Spezialwerkzeug



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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Grabbed some parts at a junk yard, @Abricos will hopefully make a flow test rig. The plan is to use not-so-high fuel pressure to begin with, I assume these would still spray something ?

For injector control first we will attempt to use BMW 7506280 GDI driver box - see https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1564

Next step should be KIT33816FRDMEVM MC33816 Development Board - sample code seem to be doing exactly the injector control we need, I just need to get myself to spend $264.57.

Once things work on the development board we can move to our own MC33816 board see https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1337&p=35142

Random bosch injector datasheet https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wiki/rusefi/rusefi_documentation/oem_docs/Bosch/Data%20sheet_67828491_HP_Injection_Valve_HDEV_5.2.pdf Maybe we need more or less similar 65-90v @ 13.2A for 500us followed by 12v@~3A for the rest of the pulse? Maybe pin 1 is also positive and pin 2 is also GND for us?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt »

With 50 PSI pressure you can open and close with just 12v. You need the boost voltage when you have high pressure. Do you have a plan for generating high pressure?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

kb1gtt wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 am
You need the boost voltage when you have high pressure. Do you have a plan for generating high pressure?
Chief mechanic says he plans to use electric ABS brakes pump.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by Abricos »

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 »

kb1gtt wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 am
With 50 PSI pressure you can open and close with just 12v. You need the boost voltage when you have high pressure. Do you have a plan for generating high pressure?
You don't need the high voltage to open the injector, just to open it quickly. With DI you're in a bit of a rush to get your injection over with, so you can't wait for a 0.5ms+ opening time. Opening time on these injectors is around 100us when using the boost + peak + hold scheme. However, you do need a current limited driver or else you'll burn out the injector. They have a DC resistance of around an ohm, so at 12v they'll be dissipating around 150 watts, which would quickly melt things.
russian wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:09 am
The plan is to use not-so-high fuel pressure to begin with, I assume these would still spray something ?
Yes - they will still spray something. I had the high pressure pump on my Focus fail, so it was running exclusively off of the low pressure (~80psi, in fuel tank) electric pump. The car didn't like starting and was stuck in limp mode, but still ran pretty much fine.

Since the flow thru an orifice (or group of orifices, in this case) is proportional to the square root of the pressure, you really only need to measure flow at one known pressure, can can extrapolate to a wide pressure range easily.
russian wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:09 am
For injector control first we will attempt...
I'd recommend trying to start the car first without the high pressure system at all, simply using the in-tank pump. The HP pump has check valves in it such that the low pressure pump will pressurize the rail, which means its function isn't strictly necessary to run the engine. My car will actually let me (albeit with a check engine light) unplug the HP pump while the engine is running without much issue. You won't be able to make more than maybe 100 horsepower, but that's enough to putter around a little bit and convince ourselves that the injector drivers work.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 »

russian wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:09 am
Random bosch injector datasheet https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wiki/rusefi/rusefi_documentation/oem_docs/Bosch/Data%20sheet_67828491_HP_Injection_Valve_HDEV_5.2.pdf Maybe we need more or less similar 65-90v @ 13.2A for 500us followed by 12v@~3A for the rest of the pulse? Maybe pin 1 is also positive and pin 2 is also GND for us?
I'll make a separate post about the injector control specifically, but you're pretty close to what those specs mean, but not quite.

The datasheet actually describes three phases:

1) Boost: Apply 65 volts until the current reaches 13.2 amps, which should take 480us. This also gives us enough information to compute the total inductance of the injector and the wiring, which is around 2.3mH according to Bosch (which sounds like the correct order of magnitude for an injector and a few meters of wire).
2) Peak (called pick-up in the datasheet): Closed loop switch on/off to maintain 9.4 amps for the next 704us
3) Hold: Closed loop switch on/off to maintain 3.7 amps for as long as you need until the injection event is over.

It's possible to measure what the VW-provided ECU is doing injector-drive wise, but likely not necesary. That datasheet is for the same HDEV 5.x injectors found both in my Focus and your VW, so they're probably close enough (if not exactly correct).

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

A blue "Hantek CC 65 Oscilloscope Multimeter AC/DC Current Clamp Meter 65A 20KHz for Car" is ready to rock, where do we want to stick it? :)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt »

These scope traces were captured on the same but different engine. It was N31 Cyl2, the green with black wire. Current clamp was a Rigol RP1002C on a Rigol DS1054
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

If things go well will finally have GDI test mule at my garage tomorrow.

https://www.patreon.com/rusefi funds would get new battery and first order of business fixing the door handle.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 »

Science has been happening to calibrate our mc33816 dev board to drive these injectors!
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

It starts and then it dies right away. It had new battery and full tank, it was parked for two months. No codes on simple OBD reader.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

^^^ that was a funny one.

The intake pipe has split into two pieces nicely opening access to unmeasured air. Fixed with duct tape for now.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Bosch Quick start VVT tested on real hardware

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=205
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=30

Open question is what's the next GDI step :)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

This test mule Passat takes up very valuable space in the garage, it cannot just sit there. I will try to make whatever progress I can make on my own but I am concerned that this project could be way over my head. If the next month turns out to be pointless head banging I would have to stop. At the moment I really need GDI help or I would have to give up and get rid of the car :(

One of the source of inspiration could be OEM tables but are those always named in German?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

https://vasyadiagnost.com/ is like VCDS but Russian. A nice box, license key and stuff for $75.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

So ^^^^ has produced attached log

Groups 101 - 109: Fuel Injection does not match Russian translation precisely but is kind of close.

mechanical translation says

Code: Select all

Sunday, 11, October, 2020,21: 10: 48: 10463-VCID:, Software version:, Protocol type: troubleshooting
3C0 907 115 F ,, 2.0l R4 / 4V TFSI 0030,

, Group A:, '101 ,,,, Group B:,' 103 ,,,, Group C:, '106
,, engine speed, engine load, Injection timing, Mass Air Flow, current, fuel pressure, adaptation value, Fuel pump Adapt. ,, Fuel rail, Electric fuel, Electric fuel, Fuel pump
, TIME, (G28) ,,, Sensor (G70), TIME, fuel pressure, regulator, fuel pump, Status, TIME, pressure (actual), Pump 1/2, Pump 3/4, Trip Time
Marker, STAMP, / min,%, ms, g / s, STAMP, mbar ,,,, STAMP, bar,% ,, s
On idle looks like 1.28ms injection time and 3.2 g/s MAF reasing
I believe I see 50.6 bar low high? fuel pressure, 49% pump duty maybe?
I do not really get 4189 mbar what is it? 4bar low pressure?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

At this point I have exactly zero information on how low pressure pump is controlled. Any hints would be appreciated!

PS: wiring plan

4 for SPI, plus 7 more
RSTB and DRIVEN on lowside outputs (with pullup), and the injector outputs on extra pins direct to mcu maybe hopefully, would need to do exact pin counting :)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 »

stick a scope/meter probe in the wires from the ECU to fuel pump control module?

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

https://www.drive2.ru/l/565601151907528941/ has images of naked fuel pump control images. "self-education VW 334" is mentioned
How it works
The electric fuel pump always conveys as much fuel as
the engine requires at a particular time.
The momentary fuel pressure is measured by the fuel
pressure sender for lower pressure and sent to the
engine control unit. If this pressure deviates from the
reference pressure, the engine control unit sends an
appropriate PWM signal (frequency 20 Hz) to the
fuel pump control unit. The control unit sends a PWM
control signal (frequency 20 kHz) to the electric fuel
pump until the fuel pressure returns to the map curves.
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_334_d1.pdf
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Progress without head banging is my favorite progress!

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

OEM low fuel pressure poking:
car not running 5 bar, 2.0volts - increased low fuel pressure to facilitate start
car idling 4bar, 1.7volts

which gives us expected 0.5v at 0bar and looks like a 200 psi low fuel pressure sensor?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Official https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/oem_docs/VW/2006_Passat/VWUSA.COM_SSP_222_Electronically_Mapped_Cooling_System.pdf does not contain enough details about Electronically Mapped Cooling System but https://golf2lin.wordpress.com/features/radiator-fan-control/ fills the gaps
The J293 controller incorporates a failsafe mode where, should there not be a recognized PWM signal of between 5% and about 95% within 10 seconds after 12V is present on its engine alive KL_15 terminal, it runs the pair of fans at full speed. This is nice to have.

The nominal ranges are expressed as:
~15% ≤ low speed ≤ high speed ≤ ~95%
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by Abricos »

low fuel pressure sensor

Previous Revisions
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06E906051J
06E906051K
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Thank you, great link http://rush.smolly.nl/changes/change4_2.htm it has some sweet info! Now preserved in a PDF just in case :)
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